Analysis on IT trends and competitive strategies, with emphasis on micro processors, computer systems and networks. Based on latest news, backed up with real data, this site intends to provide a true and realtime picture of the fast changing IT landscape. This journal strives to be accurate on facts and sharp on criticisms. You may email your opinion to sharikou@yahoo.com or post comments here, be cool and intelligent.
Freelance journalist on IT matters. Some of my writings have been published on online IT journals. Any original content on this journal is Copyrighted, but it's free for non-commercial use. Any Trademarks used on this site belong to their respective owners. Some of the pictures are links. If there is any issue with the content of this site, please email sharikou@yahoo.com .
Quad core, 65 watt. You can have a 32P K10 machine at less than 1000 watts.
posted by Sharikou, Ph. D. @ 6/29/2007 08:46:00 PM
84 Comments:
You can buy a 2GHz Barcelona in August, or a 2Ghz Clovertown with a TDP of just 50W.
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/06/29/intel_2ghz_clovertownlv/
Or if people need pure performance Clovertown goes all the way to 3Ghz.
AMD is totally fragged.
AMD BK Q2'08.
Keep dreaming Ph(ake)d.
The Barcelona 2350 is currently rated at 95 watts..
the latest update of the quad core Xeons... is 95 watts.
Now mind you thats not even the low power version which runs 50 watts.
Now what were you saying?
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40606
65W?
It's 95W for 1.9GHz+ and 120W for 2.4GHz. I don't know what you've been smoking doctor but these K10s are some hot shit... literally :)
I think AMD's new strategy is to release products that are pre-fragged by the competition. They are doing this with Barcelona, and they have done it with the whole HD 2x00 series of GPUs.
Intel wiped out AMD's market share gains in one quarter. This quarter they're going to lose even more. Intel will eliminate the AMD annoyance one and for all.
I hear Paul Otellini has ordered the Penryn troops to launch their attack early.
You can have a 32P K10 machine at less than 1000 watts.
Sorry, AMD only goes to 8P. Higher than that is for real CPUs, not AMD scrapheap CPUs.
Even if Sharikou's made up TDP was real, and AMD could go to 32P (which both are obviously false) 65 * 32 = 2080.
AMD BK Q2'08.
Boys boys stop the BS.
you know that FSB cant scale, thats why the glueless opterons are the only game in town for large multicore x86-64 platforms!.
At least I fixed my C2D laptops from continually pausing, thanks Intel, oh I mean Microsoft.!
Is that why Barcelona is coming out at a pathetic 2Ghz? Or that AMD only sees 50% scaling from 4P to 8P? Or why Opteron is stuck at 8P when you can buy a 32P Xeon server?
AMD loves releasing pre-fragged products. Clovertown 2P frags Barcelona 4P by 30%. Intel doesn't even need Penryn to finish AMD off.
This comment has been removed by the author.
K10 is K8's retarded cousin. This is what happens when you clone dualcore chips into quadcore. And don't get me started with the "special" edition. at <2Ghz, they're special alright.
65W x 32 = 2080W not <1000W
No wonder you werent allowed to elementary school with an IQ that low.
A 32P Barcelona would like consume about 4500W
I will wait for the 4Q to purchase my 4core Barcelona for my next purchase. No matter how much BS is spread in this blog will or ever change my thinking about the need for AMD. If reasoning of economics was put forth in these discussions each would know the need for competition. Every corporation has an IT manager who has their preferences, whether they be the correct choices for their perspective companies or because of name brand. If AMD was BK in 2008 or near it why would they be building a new fab in NY or partenering with others for the 32nm process. Just maybe its for logistics purposes. Good day for relaxing...See ya.
This comment has been removed by the author.
bugs i Core 2 Duo!
Buggy as hell
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=118296441702631
I will wait for the 4Q to purchase my 4core Barcelona for my next purchase.
You should, considering that what AMD will be shipping in 3Q will be utter crap. However, I expect AMD to keep the prices extremely low to maintain price competitiveness vis-a-vis Intel.
No matter how much BS is spread in this blog will or ever change my thinking about the need for AMD. If reasoning of economics was put forth in these discussions each would know the need for competition.
No one is arguing against the need for AMD. However, lesson 2 of economics is "Survival of the Fittest". And AMD is unfit. So it will BK, and will be eaten by a more fit animal, such as Samsung. And there will be a new game in the town.
Every corporation has an IT manager who has their preferences, whether they be the correct choices for their perspective companies or because of name brand.
Yes, but most IT managers want to keep their jobs. There is no way they are going to make it by filling the data centers with K10 crap. Lesson 3 of economics, "Principle of Invisible Hand". No one can change market based on their vested interests.
If AMD was BK in 2008 or near it why would they be building a new fab in NY or partenering with others for the 32nm process. Just maybe its for logistics purposes. Good day for relaxing...See ya.
Most likely because Hector and Randy want to keep taking advantage of their gullible share holders. Considering the blatent false statements made by these idiots about K10 outperforming Clovertown, I won't put anything beyond them. They are stock pumpers. They talk up the stock, and then dump it to make millions. They should be in jail.
IntelJugen_Das fanatic
bugs i Core 2 Duo!
Buggy as hell
ttp://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=118296441702631
Its the same with AMD Opteron Processor.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/
white_papers_and_tech_docs/25759.pdf
Scroll to page 5, "Errata"
No one is arguing against the need for AMD. However, lesson 2 of economics is "Survival of the Fittest". And AMD is unfit. So it will BK, and will be eaten by a more fit animal, such as Samsung. And there will be a new game in the town.
This is seeming more and more likely. Whoever does buy AMD will need to fork out at least 8B for the company (unless the stock REALLY drops), several billion to wipe away the debt, and several billion more on the fabs, upgrading them all to the latest standards. (which at the time will be 300mm/45nm). Whoever it is will have to have really deep pockets.
ONLY AMD,
The ultimate, and stupid fanboi.
"It doesn't matter that Barcelona is going to suck! I'm still going to waste my money on it's slow, power sucking under performing crap anyways because I'm a fanboi and I'm in love with Ph(ake)d."
LOL K10 is coming to town and its a dog. THey should have called it K9!
Slow and slower WOW.
AMD BK in 2008 for sure now
Perhaps in 4 years from now when Intel finally catches up Barcelona will be released!
Yes, AMD's pre-fragged strategy is working well.
AMD BK 2Q 08.
Sweeeeeet!
See this Randy Allen video:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_n3wvsfq4Y
In it, he says this:
Barcelona, we really view as the most significant change in our product family since Opteron's introduction in 2003. One of the things we've modeled is that we see is that Barcelona is going to be able to deliver performance levels, for many workloads, in excess 40% beyond what Clovertown can.
Whatever happened to this?
Barcelona, at 2Ghz, won't be able to match a 3Ghz Clovertown in much at all. Only in SPEC FP benchmarks and tests that make use of the integrated memory controller will AMD be able to claim victory.
Not people buying servers want *the* highest performing server CPUs though. Barcelona's biggest competition will be the 2.33Ghz 80W Clovertown and the new 2GHz 50W LV Clovertown expected in August.
Look at these false AMD benchmarks:
http://multicore.amd.com/us-en/AMD-Multi-Core/Products/Barcelona/Performance.aspx
Quad Core AMD Opteron processor estimates based on internal AMD simulations at 2.6GHz
2.6Ghz??? That's 30% higher clockspeed than what AMD will delivering Barcelona at!
Theo de Raadt [interview] described an active effort by OpenBSD developers to work around "serious bugs in Intel's Core 2 cpu". He went on to explain, "these processors are buggy as hell, and some of these bugs don't just cause development/debugging problems, but will *ASSUREDLY* be exploitable from userland code. As is typical, BIOS vendors will be very late providing workarounds / fixes for these processors bugs. Some bugs are unfixable and cannot be worked around. Intel only provides detailed fixes to BIOS vendors and large operating system groups. Open Source operating systems are largely left in the cold."
http://kerneltrap.org/node/8472
C2D Crashing problems
http://forums.ngemu.com/hardware-discussion/87372-c2d-crashing-problems.html#post1111415
AMD crashing problems:
http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=86159
AMD CPUs overheating:
http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=86313&enterthread=y
AMD CPU 6000+ runs too hot and overheats under full load:
http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=85683&enterthread=y
Anyone can pull a few links like that out of Google. Nice try though!
AMD BK Q2'08.
"Or if people need pure performance Clovertown goes all the way to 3Ghz."
It won't compare to a production 2 GHz Barcelona.
It won't compare to a production 2 GHz Barcelona.
Really, have you a modicum of evidence to back this up? We've already seen a 2P Xeon system frag a 4P barcelona system by 30%. It's game over for AMD.
Fragged all over.
See this other Randy Allen video:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSw2GTLHtQo
Randy Allen makes some bold claims:-
I think that if you look at the four key value propositions of Barcelona you know it's going to be the highest performing x86 processor out there. It's going to completely blow away the existing Clovertown product in every dimension!
At 2Ghz? I don't think so!
Just as a comparison, Intel had demonstration Harpertown servers setup at Computex running at 3.2Ghz on a 1600Mhz bus. On the desktop, they had 3.33Ghz Yorkfield 133Mhz bus CPUs on show.
If Intel was truly as good as the fanboys say they are, they would swat AMD away like a tiny insect. Once the bubble burst - once the truth came out about Intel's lies, their cloak of deception and propaganda was no longer enough to hold AMD back. Intel is now on the brink of oblivion, but the intelers turn their heads to show a deaf ear. The only true talent of a fanboy is well evident here: the ability to remain in complete delusion of the truth while surrounded by the facts.
Intel has claimed victory in becoming the Walmart of the industry; peddling their cheap garbage to the misinformed lower class. While completely unwarranted, the intelers proudly display their ignorance as if it were a badge of valor and truth.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Barcelona on page 71
If Intel could swat AMD away they would.
But AMD would whine to the feds about it...
Oh wait, thats just what they are doing now.
AMD's market share down by the double digits, losing marketshare quickly back to Intel.
AMD behind the 8-ball and still not fully at 65um yet, when Intel is already transitioning to 45um and has 35um already in the pipeline.
AMD behind the 8-ball with quad core. Intel has already shipped a million of them.
Buy the fanboi's like Penix still running around claiming love and peaches.
This comment has been removed by the author.
As AMD have swapped the marketing spin from best outright performance to best performance per watt due to the low initial speeds of the K10 it will be interesting to see the performance gain over the current Opteron series and the amount of energy savings.
These are probably a much more impoortant couple of statistics than comparison with Clovertown for a lot of organisations who have a large number of Opterons already and wish to simply upgrade their cpu's.
Still two months to wait, it seems like we have been awaiting this chip forever.
Shipping a million to remote warehouses is not the same as selling a million to end users.
I totally agree! That's why Intel's market share increased by 6% last quarter, they sell all the quads they can make. Everyone wants them.
All x86 CPUs Intel produces are 65nm. AMD is pumping out 90nm spaceheaters and accumulating more and more inventory due to their shrinking market share.
Make America strong, keep americans working, buy AMD.
Intel already has several fabs in the USA. D1D, Fab 11X and FAB32 are all in the USA. D1D and FAB32 will be pumping out all the 45nm CPUs this year. FAB11X will be 45nm next year. Intel has fab28 under construction in Israel as well, a forth 45nm fab.
AMDs barcelona will take us to the future of computing.
The future of CPUs being consistently behind schedule? Consistently being pre-fragged by the competition? That seems to be AMD's strategy of late. It's main two businesses are GPUs and CPUs. All HD2x00 were pre-fragged by Nvidia. All K10 CPUs have been pre-fragged by Clovertown. Intel doesn't even need Penryn to frag AMD.
AMD BK Q2'08.
Oneexpert
Wow yet another insightful comment from you NOT!!
I don’t mind people being fan’s of a certain manufacturer but I do mind when people disregard the truth.
Inventories – if you look at the latest quarterly result from AMD and Intel then you will see that Intel inventories are down and AMD inventories are up. Besides that only sales are counted if intel just shipped them to a warehouse it could not be booked as a sale.
90 nm – I don’t doubt that intel still sells many 90 nm chips just not in the X86 market
Glued P3 – Wrong, Core2 Duo is a native dualcore just like Athlon 64. Core2 Duo are glued yes, but no matter how much you call them antiques, P3, FSB limited etc they are still the only X86 quadcore processors on the market and they perform quite well.
Sending American jobs to China. I’m not an American so this argument don’t really bite on me, but I don’t think they are sending chip manufacturing to China as there is a limit on what kind of technology can be exported to china. The 90 nm process are the lowest tech they can export to China. But I thin you Americans need to wake up and face the reality of a globalization and focus on other areas of expertise we in Europe have been doing that for many years.
Personally I buy whatever gives me the most bang for the buck. The last 2 years that was AMD and a have 2 AMD systems at home and my web server Runs a 2P dualcore opteron, so don’t call me a fanboy when you reply I just hate ignorance.
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Intels last year profits were generated by this Marvel sale totally
How do you explain that Intel reported over $5bn in profit when they only made $600m from the sale of the Xscale stuff to Marvel?
"AMD is the only company to announce a new fab in NY."
Do you know that by the end of next year Intel will have four all new 45nm fabs producing chips?
oneexpert, stupid.
Intel is'nt PRODUCING the P-D's anymore. Just bargain sales. They Have migrated to the Core Arch over the whole board. (Except Tulsa ATM).
Oneexpert
I'm European i dont care if my CPU are produced in US, Isreal or China. No matter where it is produced it is money out of my country as we dont have any chip plants in the country i live in.
And agin nobody cares how a CPU gets its power as long as it is fast.
Intels last year profits were generated by this Marvel sale totally.
In 2006 Intel's profit was $8.7 billion. The Marvell sale was $600 million. So are you just dumb or a liar?
And yes that quadcore is nothing but reworked pentium 3s glued together, its antique technology.
Wow, for an antique it has NO problems at all slaughtering AMD's best processor with ease. Hell in some cases it even SLAUGHTERS AMD's Barcelona. Wow, for antique it sure gives AMD a hard time...
AMD is nearly complete with its switch to 65nm and is working on 32nm.
No, it's not even 1/4 the way transitioned to 65um yet. On the other hand Intel is completely transitioned where needed to 65um, has already started the transition to 45um for some foundries and is working on 32um as well. But per usual, is WELL ahead of AMD by a very large margin for these transitions.
AMD is the only company to announce a new fab in NY.
And Intel has new fabs in New Mexico AND Arizona. Your point?
Intel is still pushing the highest watt consuming cpu made the d805 space heater along with its d820 d830 and d840.
??? And Intel's latest revision of its quad core uses less power than the first releases of the Barcelona. Your point? OMG lets list some old CPU's! Moron.
AMD has brought out 45 watt state of the art cpus.
And Intel has released MUCH lower wattage state of the art CPU's, and has been selling them for years. Some C2D are available in 10 watt, and ULV C2D that use ONE watt. ONE.
I don't know why your parents didn't abort you when they saw the large amount of brain damage you have before your birth. It must have been something to do with all the drugs your parents used.
Do us ALL a favour, get a fucking education and learn a bit more about Intel and it's products before shooting that ignorant piehole off, because quite frankly you look more like a moron than your worshipful Ph(ake)d.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Man, I take the weekend off and all the short-bus kids (penix & especially oneexpert) really start drooling.
1. I thought 'Dear Leader' Sharikou said he was going to buy a Barecelona server in July??? (See his June 21st post). Apparently not, and last time I checked, September (which is the earliest any mere mortal will actually be able to buy a K10 server) is not in July.
2. Hey oneexpert: I have a proposal for you, since AMD loves America so much, why don't you go out and buy me an X2 processor made in the good ol' USA!!! Oh wait... you can't, no X2 has ever been made in the US, AMD outsourced 100% of its capacity to either Germany (in-house), or to Chartered in Taiwan (I seem to remember you even bragging about that for some reason).
Now, I'm not saying that every chip I use has to be made in the US, but it is (typically) disingenuous to scream about Intel having some of its production offshore (especially when it just opened a new 45nm facility in Arizona), while at the same time ALL of AMD's production is offshore. And the New York plant... well, IBM will still be a profitable chipmaker in 2008, maybe it can take over the project.
3. Now for some actual rational discussion, fanboys from both sides can now stop reading and go back to licking thermal paste. I am going to have to go out on a limb here since there are 0 reliable numbers from AMD, but just eyeballing the architectural improvements in Barcelona, I'm going to say it has anywhere from a 10% to 20% IPC advantage over current Core 2 chips.
Most of this comes due to the fact that when using SSE, the K10 chip now has the same 128 bit paths to the SSE unit that Core 2 already has (you see fanboys, AMD copying Intel). This means that SSE instructions can be processed in 1 cycle instead of 2 as in current Opterons.
Additionally, while AMD's cache setup is still substantially inferior to Intel's, they do finally have a shared level of cache at L3 for all the chips to use. If core 2 showed anything it's that, while hypertransport is certainly faster that using the FSB for chip to chip communications, having the data accessible in shared cache beats the tar out of even hypertransport. (Another copy of Intel there AMD).
I actually have a concern about the Barcelona cache, since the L1 cache per core is actually only 1/2 the size of the current Opterons (64K combined data + instruction instead of 128K). If AMD has made the new L1 with a higher degree of associativity this may not be as big a deal, but do not underestimate the importance of fast cache. I don't care if hypertransport is faster than an FSB, either one is still vastly slower than properly designed cache.
Bottom line: at 2Ghz I would put the K10 at about a 2.4Ghz Intel Cloverton (this is assuming we are talking about apps that can actually take advantage of 4 cores, K10 is not going to be great at single thread, but that's also not its target use). Now watch out AMD fanboys, I'm not insulting K10 here, since the Core 2 has excellent IPC this is actually a major compliment to what AMD has been able to design now the only problem is what AMD can manufacture....
The most ironic thing that I can seem to see right now, is that AMD's insistence on going 'native' for quad-core means they have designed a chip that frankly, only Intel could have had a shot at profitably manufacturing. The thing is a beast at 283 square millimeters. Even Intel with its manufacturing capacity would have difficulty in making the chip in quantities and at reasonable prices. I promise you this: There is no way on this green earth that AMD is making a profit on a K10 sold at $390. It is not happening. AMD was planning on introducing these things in the $1000-1200 price range and cleaning up on margin, but that is not going to happen now, and AMD is definitely in trouble.
You see, what fanboys forget is that engineering chips is all about tradeoffs. I mean, having an IMC definitely has advantages to a separate chipset... but there are also disadvantages too! When AMD went to DDR2 it was forced to go with a whole new socket that left all the 939's in the dust. On an Intel board, I can use DDR2 or new DDR3 boards with existing and upcoming processors because de-coupling the memory controller from the chip provides more flexibility. Again, the irony is that Intel would be the company to have the manufacturing capacity to have different versions of the same chip with different memory controllers, but it was AMD that decided to do it, and is now paying the price of not being flexible.
It's very easy for me to sit here and say: Oh yeah, I want a 128 core chip with 2 GB of cache running at 20Ghz, but the actual process of designing (and even more importantly manufacturing) the chip is what separates the men from the fanboys. AMD had a great chip with Opteron (especially since Intel was stupid for several years) but Intel wised up, and AMD simultaneously got greedy.... not a good combination for AMD.
--- Reformatted
This comment has been removed by the author.
It will take Intel another 4 years to catch up, but it will never be able to see that day -- you know why.
No, I don't know why... tell me! Tell me more! I like stories! Heck, I like everything you say.
Well said Doorknob... well said
(and yes, I am an American, however unlike most of the imports, I am a TRUE American... IE: I'm a Native American, Indian, Aboriginal American, call it what you will)...
Evil Merlin said:
(and yes, I am an American, however unlike most of the imports, I am a TRUE American... IE: I'm a Native American, Indian, Aboriginal American, call it what you will)...
Oh, so it's probable you REALLY know about how some Americans "take care of their own", right?
And Intel has new fabs in New Mexico AND Arizona. Your point?
Actually, there are more than that.
From Intel's own website.
Fab production sites within the United States are located in Chandler, Ariz.; Santa Clara, Calif.; Colorado Springs, Colo.; Hudson, Mass.; Rio Rancho, N.M.; and Hillsboro, Ore.; and outside the United States in Leixlip, Ireland; Jerusalem, Israel; and Kiryal Gat, Israel. Two new fabs are under construction at existing sites in Arizona and Israel.
Phenom delayed untill 2008, needs a respin due to 65nm yeild issues.
AMD = Another Month Delay.
http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20070702PD201.html
I just wish we would all stop wishing for companies to go bankrupt.
2.4GHz Quad core at 120W is not hot. The 3GHz dual core is rated at that.
Launching Penryn too soon will kill Intel's margins even more. They're already half what they usually are.
The latest R600 drivers show A LOT of improvement for perf. nVidia still hasn't provided me with a multimon driver for Vista.
AMDs scaling is the result of not having L3 and HT link unganging which is introduced with HT3.
You can get better scaling using clusters or adding an HT link to the board to connect another board like IWILL does.
As far as market share, the low end is what matters and a 3GHz chip under $250 will maintain some leverage.
Also, the big Toshiba deal and MS selling AMD machines in India will also help.
10h is not K8. It is a redesigned architecture based on K8. It is nearly the same as Dothan/Yonah and we know how that turned out.
Most computer enthusiasts should be killed for being short-sighted. Just liek MS bought a bunch of AMD chips for their India box and Toshiba picking up 65nm Turion and Russia trying to do a UMPC with Geode, AMD should be back to a growth model in Q3.
Most analysts (who I usually DON'T agree with) are saying the same thing. I think 30% overall share this year is a reachable goal now that mobile is taking off.
By getting 24xx/26xx at 65nm that shrinks the chip A LOT allowngfor better margins on the volume products.
It's reported that those two chips have gotten 60-70% of OEM business.
As far as delays, this is a common thing in the tech sector. WIndows has never released on time MacOS has had it's share of delays, the dual core Itanium was late and slow, CSI has been pushed back more times than a bunch of clocks for daylight savings, Intel still has no point-to-point protocol or IMC.
All of you need to get a life (these are companies not people). I bet this post clears 200 replies.
I do get the feeling that the annoyed feeling certain people have towards this blog owner is clouding their feelings on what should happen to AMD. It's almost as if people want AMD to go belly up just to prove Sharikou wrong.
Some of the comments sound like they come from people who do not buy their own computer parts or are millionaires. Talk of cutting off your own nose to spite ones face ..sigh.
I speak as someone who has gone from oveclocked Celeron 366A to Pentium III Coppermine to AMD Thunderbird then Palamino then Thoroughbred then Barton then back to Intel Northwood, off to K8 Clawhammer before FX-55 Sledgehammer and finally Core2Duo X6800.
As a selfish desktop user I would like AMD to up there just to keep things on the boil.
Let us not lose our perspective. AMD has excellent server offerings -- no doubt about it. On desktop, they have a problem and they acquired ATI as a possible solution to that. However, this has runied AMD's financials and everyone perceives them as really really sick.
Nevertheles I must admit that AMD has excellent desktop/laptop offerings from HP and Dell, especially for the informed buyer. These offerings are real great values.
However, it will be a long time before the perception that AMD is in its death bed will change.
Oh, so it's probable you REALLY know about how some Americans "take care of their own", right?
Honestly, no different than any other country treats it's original "owners". Humans in general, are assholes.
Since AMD's reversal of fortune, Sharikou has seldom responded to any of the comments posted. I guess he is embarassed by the enormity of his stupid remarks about Intel's BK.
Giant, NEW foundries, as I said are New Mexico and Arizona...
Hudson is being close this year and sold off BTW (I live not far from the plant)
Let us not lose our perspective. AMD has excellent server offerings -- no doubt about it.
AMD's CURRENT server offerings simply cannot compete with Intel's latest offerings and looking to the future, it looks even more bleak for AMD, and if AMD continues along its path with delay after delay for Barcelona, Intel is going to smack it much worse than it has been.
This comment has been removed by the author.
OneExpert: What part of "you are a retard" can you not understand?
AMD has 0 fabs in the US. It closed it's main fab in Austin Texas to move everything to Germany. (Yeah I said 'closed' meaning Americans lost jobs). So when Intel closes down one outdated fab while also opening up more fabs in the US, Intel is evil. But when AMD closes ALL of its fabs in the US that is 'buying American'????
The fab in New York is just a plan right now, and in AMD's current situation where the hell is it going to get money for that fab? The $2.2 billion debt-bomb AMD took on is only for ongoing operations and conversions of its existing German fabs, there is no money to build a new Fab in New York or anywhere else.
OK, oneexpert, since you secretly hate AMD by refusing to let my even buy an Athlon for you here's my new challenge: Point out any Athlon X2 processor made by AMD in the US and I will personally buy it for you. You can't do that since no X2 has ever been made in the US. At the same time, it's pretty easy to find Intel chips that are from the US.... so as usual you are full of shit.
McDonald's does not close restaurants in America when it expands into China.
Intel closes fabs in America when it moves to China.
Intel abandons while McDonald's expands.
And? McDonald's opens and closes stores every day. McDonalds is a retailer, so it really has no relevance. But...
Your American McDonalds buys my Canadian beef, my Canadian flour for its buns, lettuce and vegetables from Mexico, and basically buys everything from wherever the best deal is. If they relied on American suppliers exclusively, McDonalds would be out of business.
China invests in America everyday, China does not close down parts of China just because they invest in America.
Wha?? If it was financially beneficial for 'China' to close a plant in China and open one in the US, it would. However, American labor unions and high-demanding, slow working employees (in general) ensure that doesn't happen.
China treats America better than Intel does.
As one does, when America feeds it with streams of money. Just like a tourist hotspot in the Caribbean, China loves America. But it also hates America and is jealous, deceitful, exploitative, and wouldn't hesitate to fuck America at the drop of the hat. It's wise to know why you're being treated the way you are. Intel is a corporation though, and it'll do whatever it feels makes the best economic sense.
China supplies America with goods and investments.
Intel moves there investments right out of the country but still wants Americans to buy there products.
China hires thousands of Americans to market and distribute and warrant there products in America.
Here's the deal. American citizens want newer, better, faster, and especially CHEAPER products. A company investing solely in American made products will not be able to provide that. So what does the company do? Move some parts of itself somewhere where labor is cheaper and employees more dedicated. If you got your way, our computer parts would be 10x their current prices and be failing all of the time because Jenny in quality control is too busy talking on her cell phone and not afraid for her job if she gets caught.
Intel unemploys thousands of Americans by moving there operations out of America.
They shouldn't have been emplying these people anyways, if that's the case. The strong (read: competitive) will survive.
AMD is building that fab in NY to make America stronger.
What about the rest of the world? Small third world countries that need to money to bring up their standard of living, plus provide their employees with real income should be neglected? America has enough money and is inefficient with what it has.
If there weren't laws to stop Intel from moving there 45nm production out of the country, I am sure they would.
Intel will be fabless in America as soon as they can get the laws changed on export of newest processes.
The only reason intel changes the die size so fast is so they can legally push 65nm production to other countries.
Huh? What laws? Intel can open whatever it wants wherever it wants. It's a matter of where and how they can sell.
Check pricewatch.com intel sells more power abusive cpus than any other semiconductor manufacturer.
Intel is still king of the 90nm power draining cpus.
Yet no matter which company it is, AMD or Intel, they are both working towards lower power consumption. The consumer is the one that chooses to use them. Same goes with SUV's - there's a market for them, people want them even though they consume tons of gasoline more per year than another vehicle. Therefore they exist.
AMD sells more energy saving cpus and platforms than any other semiconductor manufacturer.
4 glued up pentium 3s with a front side bus does not take you to the future of computing, it is the past, even intel admits to this.
AMDs barcelona is the future of computing.
Yet AMD continues to trail in terms of performance. I'd take an antique any day if it performed better than something new, regardless whether its a CPU, a car, or a stapler. FSB isn't going to be around forever, but right now (which is the only thing that IS ACTUAL) an Intel CPU with a FSB kicks the snot out of AMD's products. You go ahead and buy the future, I'll take the present.
32nm will be immersion process and only IBM and AMD are into this field.
Sure, but again, that's the future. Do what you want, but my money is on the present and you're a sucker if you buy AMD today based on what they will have as products in the future or had as products in the past!
Keep America strong, buy AMD.
Buy AMD so that your $$$ go to the stockholders in Germany, Japan, and Saudi Arabia! Keep America strong - as THEE revenue generator for stockholders around the world!
Guy, your heart is in the right place but you're being ignorant and playing right into the capitalist game. And we all know who wins THAT game, don't we?
Look at GW Bush...he sucks in 50+% of the nation with his patriotic nonsense...do you think he really gives a shit about YOU? Nationalism is a tool for the powerful and rich to exploit with and a neck chain for everyone else to be lead around by. Bark, bitch.
oneexpert, you just need to SHUT THE FUCK UP.
1.) You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to processors, other than what you read on this fucking hole of a Blog.
2.) You have no clue how true economics work
3.) You are blindly patriotic and think by AMD building a foundry in New York (that is IF they even build one) you seem to think that Intel doesn't employ 6x the staff of AMD in the US alone. Well they do, thus by your fucking cracked logic, Intel is being 6x more productive to the US than AMD is. As I said before Intel has fabs and foundries all over the US. Every one of them by itself is one more than AMD has in the US.
Lets also get into the fact that Intel pays more taxes than AMD does (mostly because, unlike AMD they are making money), and thus giving more back to the US.
I swear the fucktard that claims to own this blog attracts the worst kind of fanbois and idiots.
Doorknob_dan:
Look at GW Bush...he sucks in 50+% of the nation with his patriotic nonsense...do you think he really gives a shit about YOU? Nationalism is a tool for the powerful and rich to exploit with and a neck chain for everyone else to be lead around by.
Loving your nation and being patriotic do not mean you have blind support for stupid decisions of this government.
I'd die to defend the freedoms this country gives me... because it's worth it.
BTW people why do you keep posting here? you can't stop this guys as you can't stop a ghost with bullets! He has no face, he's intangible, he doesn't even exist! He's the puppet master! Fantôme de l'Opéra!
Here he wins all the time, he's the joker in this circus! his grounds! you cant' pull him out! you can't beat him here!
I always get a kick out of the claims made in this blog. I've never posted before, but it's funny sharikou used to go around hyping AMD on the stock boards of INTC and AMD in Yahoo finance. Lately, he's been noticeably absent.
Anyway, even the Inquirer acknowledges AMD is in a tough spot these days, and think Hector should go. I didn't see this link posted yet, so I thought I pass it along. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40501
Pop Catalin Sever: A very good point. I post here since more people will read my points than if I just did my own blog :)
At the end of the day, either oneexpert is actually insane, or more likely is really an Intel fan who intentionally posts insanely stupid stuff to make AMD fans look bad (which is unfortunate since there are actually some honest AMD fans out there).
I'm still on the fence as to whether or not Sharikou is in that camp. I think a psychologist would love this forum though, some people here sound like they were brainwashed in a cult or something.
Chuckula, couldn't have said it better myself.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Oneexpert knows better. He is either an idiot or just plain misleading the users of this forum. Intel makes silicon i.e. cpu in a lot of countries: USA, Israel, Ireland, etc. These pieces of silicon are then sent to Malaysia, Costa Rica, Singapore and the like for insertion into the cermaic housing and then packaged into the final retail boxes or oem flats that we are familiar with. I am a manufacture of computers in Canada and see a lot of AMD cpus. In fact I have three on my desk at this time and they (Sempron 3000+ and X2 3800+ and x2 4600+ are all stamped with "Assembled in Malaysia". I am certain that the cpu inside the processor was made in Dresden. Accordingly, I would request all users herein stop this petty bickering and get some constructive exchange of information.
This comment has been removed by the author.
You fool oneexpert you fell into Intel marketing hype about the processors only good in SSE, which is only relevant in practically every desktop application LOL
This comment has been removed by the author.
Evil_Merlin said...
In 2006 Intel's profit was $8.7 billion.
Right, some more lies and FUD spread by an Inteler!
Look up the true facts!
But then again since you guys are delusional to facts and live in your own little world, I supplied the link for others.
2006 Income for Intel:-
Q1: $1.3Bn
Q2: $1.1Bn
Q3: $1.4Bn
Q4: $1.5Bn
Total: $5.3Bn in operating profit for 2006.
See for yourself: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=101302&p=irol-earningsresults
Hey oneexpert, why don't you try reading for a change?
Here, I'll help you. Here is the important part of Josephl's message;
Intel makes silicon i.e. cpu in a lot of countries: USA, Israel, Ireland, etc. These pieces of silicon are then sent to Malaysia, Costa Rica, Singapore and the like for insertion into the cermaic housing and then packaged into the final retail boxes or oem flats that we are familiar with.
You should also talk about how AMD shut down it's fab in the USA years ago oneexpert. Where are all the American made AMD CPUs?
AMD BK Q2'08.
Walmart of the industry.
Old video, but it's funny when compared to oneexpert's comments.
Google Video
Oh come on enumae, surely by now I thought that you'd have learned how it goes. TomsHardware is clearly a paid Intel pumper.
Well, that is, at least until they find a modicum of pro-AMD material on the site. Then it's ok for Sharikou and his cronies to link to that material.
Oneexpert: You are an Intel Fanboy!
Oneexpert sez:
Lets see, I have 6 intel cpus on hand lets see how many were made in America.
e6600 made in Malaysia.
d805 made in Malaysia.
e6400 made in Malaysia.
356 made in Malaysia.
You apparently don't own a single AMD processor!!
And, when I offered to exchange the Intel systems for AMD.... you refused!!
Hey Sharikou... you have a traitor in your midst! Oneexpert says he likes AMD, but all he does is spew crap that makes even you look stupid!! Oneexpert does not even own an AMD system, and only buys Intel, he's an Intel fanboy!!
Come on Sharikou, you know what needs to happen to traitors.... you're going to have to 'pre-frag' oneexpert!
Oh and for the record, I think Oneexpert who claims to be an AMD fan has bought as many Intel CPUs in the last year as I think I have ever purchased!
Let's see in the past 5 years:
1. A 2.4Ghz Northwood core with the 800mhz bus, the last P4 that was even in the neighborhood of not-sucking in 2003 and it's going to get replaced when Penryn comes out. By the way: Thanks for fucking nothing AMD, when you fluffed Barcelona it meant I have to wait longer. It still runs Kubuntu well enough for daily usage, but it is getting long in the tooth.
2. A core duo not a core 2 but the original running strong in my laptop.
And further back then that to 1991 when I was still a kid:
3. A P3 600 in the earlier years of college on a 440 BX. Slot 1 form factor, and AGP 2x that's a blast from the past.
4. A Pentium 120 with a whopping 16 MB of RAM. It was eventually upgraded to 64 MB and a (at the time) superfast 200Mhz socket 5 Pentium. It had 1 gig of.... hard drive space! (and I thought that was huge)
5. A 386 SX 16 from 1991, with a 40 MB hard drive, and a whopping 1Mb of RAM.... w00t!! It used a desktop form factor, and the CPU was actually soldered onto the motherboard (no ability to replace it short of unsoldering a surface-mount CPU... not fun).
It had no heatsink at all, and apparently didn't need one. (That is something Intel & AMD both could re-learn from the past). I got an upgrade '486' chip (knock-off I think from Cyrix) that literally fit over the existing CPU, sort of like how the Star Destroyers in Star Wars can swallow up a smaller ship.
That was a freakin' annoying trip down memory lane.
Also in that time I owned an Athlon XP 1333 that I upgraded to a 2400 @ 2Ghz (which BTW was faster than my P4 in compiling, although the P4 had an edge in some floating-point stuff). That Athlon system was my workehorse when I was in Grad school, and it made compiling kernels for my thesis project much easier.
My final point oneexpert: Since 1991 I've had about 5 different Intel systems, and you listed off 4 Intel CPUs that you bought.... in the last year!. Additionally, you apparently don't own a single AMD system at all! Is your stategy to BK Intel by giving them all your money and not giving any to AMD? That does not sound like a winner to me.
Now I know you are just putting up stupid posts get attention, and I just wanted you to know that before I ignore you, I'm going to make sure your God Sharikou knows what a blasphemer you are.
Barcelona 2.3GHz yields 21% higher score than Clovertown 2.66 GHz, but Floating Point test leaves a staggering 50% performance deficit for Clovertown, and this is not something 45 nanometre Penryn can solve overnight.
Barcelona is in general, around 65-70% faster than the highest-clocked dual-core Opteron. SPECweb99 yields a hefty 67% performance increase, SPECweb99_SSL offers 66%, while SAP-SD offers 70% performance increase.
The highest gain, of over 100% can be seen in SPECweb2005/Ecom benchmark, while smallest gain was in TPC-C SQL2000, where only 42% gain was marked. This was all based on 2P (dual-socket) systems, of course.
n the four-socket arena, Opteron 8222 versus 8356 offers an average of over 60% performance boost, which is not a small thing - given that clock difference is 700MHz. SPECweb99 and SPECweb99_SSL give 68% performance increase, SPECweb2005/Ecom yields another scaling dream (91%), while most modest increase is again, TPC-C SQL2000. Nevertheless, TPC-C Oracle test will yield 75% performance increase while Terminal Services will offer 71%.
Intel clovertown+penryn totally get frogged by barcelona..
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40749
This comment has been removed by the author.
enumae said...
Old video, but it's funny when compared to oneexpert's comments.
I had seen that video a while back but never paid much attention to it.
Note that I don't necessarily disagree with the end results (AMD did run hot at times and their silica was inferior to that of Intel's at back in the day).
But did you notice how biased the video is.
Take a look at how high the heat is measured with Intel CPU's (from 3 to 4 inches) compared to AMD's (1/4 to 1 inch). Unless that little heat gadget can measure the same reading from an inch to 4 inches, it's kind of retarded not to measure from the same distance.
Second, take a look at the AMD CPU's when the heat sink is removed. Especially the first one. Notice that it's already white all around the processor a fraction of a second as the heat sink is removed.
Are you that desperate enumae? Newbies won't fall for your FUD, not even my grandmother. Most people are not falling for it anymore... but what the heck, post your link once again in a few months anyway!
Jeach
...conspiracy theory...Are you that desperate enumae?
Of what? You, Oneexpert, Pezal, Penix...
Looking at the amount of crap oneexpert or any of the others spew, you decide to bug me for a video of a Pentium III that was meant for comedic relief?
LMAO!!!
Take your Anti-FUD police approach and apply it to oneexpert and the rest of the afore mentioned before starting with me and I will gladly with hold my useless post.
I recommend AMD brisbane.
My AMD AM2-4800 brisbane outperforms all that intel junk.
My am2 5000 and my am2 4600 are nice too.
But you or intel cant beat the x2-3600 brisbane for performance price and energy savings.
That AM2 3600 brisbane is one smooth cpu compared to that intel junk.
I replaced all of my c2ds with VIA-C7s.
The VIA C7(cyrix designs) have true random number generators and dont make mistakes when running basic code like the c2ds do.
Thats right a single core VIA C7 beats out a c2d in actual software performance.
Still that AMD 4800 brisbane runs smooth as glass and beats out any c2d intel makes.
The AMD 4800 brisbane saves so much power it pays for itself in no time at all.
So unlike the intel fanboys I actually have owned and tested the cpus I report on.
I know 1st hand what intel junk is when compared to AMD.
Glued up pentium 3s are simply antiques that will only keep you in the past.
AMD cpu and platform designs will take us to the future of computing.
Have a happy 4th America.
9:24 AM, July 03, 2007
AMD CPUs are all scrapheap junk. 90nm spaceheaters that will end at the junkyard. After Intel's July price cuts AMD's fastest CPU will only be as fast as Intel's $163 CPU.
Expect further ASP declines, more market share loss and even bigger quarterly losses until they BK in Q2'08.
AMD is posting more misleading benchmarks:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_13223,00.html?redir=CPBM01
Simulations at 2.6Ghz??? But AMD cannot make a Barcelona at those speeds. Clovertown will utterly destroy Barcelona. We all know AMD's new strategy is to release pre-fragged products.
AMD BK Q2'08.
pezal
"Intel clovertown+penryn totally get frogged by barcelona.. "
Explain
Alright, it's 4th of July people, get out and enjoy some fireworks (and I don't mean the flames on this board)!
For your reading pleasure: A little paper-launch shredding
Post a Comment
<< Home