Tuesday, June 27, 2006

DELL Laptop Explosion Not Related to Battery

DELL claims that the Centrino explosion reported by INQ did not appear to have anything to do with battery issues.

I conjectured that a 53 watt Core Duo's thermal protection failed and caused two explosions.

51 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Camden said it was too early to draw any conclusions and added that it did not appear that the incident had anything to do with the battery issues related to the recall."

The Dell people say it's too early to know. Yet, the ever-brilliant (sarcasm on) Sharikou says it must have been the processor. Why does Sharikou do it? Was he fired from Intel for being an incompetent? Or is he just a paid AMD pumper?

3:58 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you are going more and more crazy, Sharikou.

4:11 PM, June 27, 2006  
Blogger Sharikou, Ph. D said...

Yet, the ever-brilliant (sarcasm on) Sharikou says it must have been the processor.

It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Two explosions, two cores, not the battery, what else? Capacitors may also explode, but the CPU should explode first. We all have seen that exploding Pentium 4 video--it's for real.

4:18 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Two explosions, two cores, not the battery, what else? Capacitors may also explode, but the CPU should explode first.

as far as i know cpus aren't loaded with explosives. in hot environments like computers components like capacitors or lithium-ion accus will die first - most of the times with impressive effects. it seems you haven't your phd in electronics?

We all have seen that exploding Pentium 4 video--it's for real.

you mean the faked one? or do you mean the faked movie of a duron exploding? both are fun to watch.

5:05 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Two explosions, two cores, not the battery, what else? Capacitors may also explode, but the CPU should explode first. We all have seen that exploding Pentium 4 video--it's for real."

Just because there were two explosions (I believe there were many more than two) doesn't mean it's automatically the CPU. I would think that if one core were to explode the 2nd core would be destroyed so it wouldn't be exploding in a 2nd explosion. I don't believe it's ever been mentioned that it was a Core Duo anyways. Neither The Inquirer or the Reuters article you posted mention that it was a Core Duo.

Where do you get your 53W number anyways? I haven't seen that reported anywhere. It would be false to automatically assume that the throttling mechanism failed since Intel has had a lot more experience with it than AMD, so it'd be wise to give it the benefit of the doubt before condemming it.

5:16 PM, June 27, 2006  
Blogger Sharikou, Ph. D said...

as far as i know cpus aren't loaded with explosives. in hot environments like computers components like capacitors or lithium-ion accus will die first - most of the times with impressive effects. it seems you haven't your phd in electronics?

Cpacitors don't theoretically consume energy, they store and release energy. So it had to be the CPU. However, the explosion from CPUs could have caused the capacitors to rupture. As I analysed, at some point, a short circuit situation developed.

5:29 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please read the article you linked carefully - it specifically stated:

"...and added that it did not appear that the incident had anything to do with the battery issues related to THE RECALL",

...NOT that it was unrelated to the battery.

5:37 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Two explosions, two cores, not the battery, what else?"

If you could let the rest of us know what part of a Silicon chip is explosive that would be helpful (Si? SiO2? Cu? SiN).

The chip may have shorted (or for that matter any other electrical component), but is is not clear how a CPU would explode when there are no explosive components in a Si chip.

5:38 PM, June 27, 2006  
Blogger Sharikou, Ph. D said...

The chip may have shorted (or for that matter any other electrical component), but is is not clear how a CPU would explode when there are no explosive components in a Si chip.

I have analysed it previously. Basically, the si melted and then vaporized, building up a lot of pressure which was initially contained. After reaching a threshold, the thing exploded.

5:44 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Capacitors don't theoretically consume energy, they store and release energy. So it had to be the CPU.

btw. it's quiet easy to calculate the loss of a capacitor. here is a nice article to freshen up your knowledge

http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Design_Tips/Electrolytics/Caps.shtm

your statement makes therefor no sense.

take my word as a electronics expert, that explosions of capacitors are very impressive and much more common than exploding processors.

I would think that if one core were to explode the 2nd core would be destroyed so it wouldn't be exploding in a 2nd explosion.

good point. both cores are on the same die. so in the hypothetical case if one core on the die explodes the other core one the die would be destroyed as well! so if there are two explosions, they can't be caused by two cores on one die!

5:56 PM, June 27, 2006  
Blogger Sharikou, Ph. D said...

good point. both cores are on the same die. so in the hypothetical case if one core on the die explodes the other core one the die would be destroyed as well! so if there are two explosions, they can't be caused by two cores on one die!

When a short circuit developed, the heat built up within one core rapidly, because of the low thermal conductivity of SI, the other core hadnot reached exploding temperature...any way, there was a small and obvervable time lag between the explosions of the two cores.

As for your point on heat dissipation on the capacitors, why don't you do a calaculation and tell us how many milli-watts you got...

6:07 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I have analysed it previously. Basically, the si melted and then vaporized, building up a lot of pressure which was initially contained. After reaching a threshold, the thing exploded."

I must have missed the "analysis". Please inform us at what temp Si vaporizes and how does this compare to the temperature generated by an electrical short?

Also, what part of the laptop is sealed in such a way that the pressure would build up - wouldn't it escape through the numerous openings?

6:11 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hmm, maybe inside the sealed CPU?

6:26 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

capacitors only explode ( very nasty) if overheat or overvoltage, both could be caused after failure of the CPU. I would think the power mosfets regulating the power to the CPU would go first. One likely scenario : CPU fails ( small fire and small explosion ) due to overheat/overvoltage/both , power mosfets fail ( also small fire and explosion ), then capacitors explode ( loud bang and lots of smoke )

If Dell sold enough of those, it should happen again soon

6:26 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Conspiracy
Among the concerns are that ICs could be doctored crudely in design or manufacture to fail early—for example, by changing chemical composition, by reducing material thicknesses or placing wires too close together.

Hmmmm.
Why is Dell getting special pricing from Intel? and
Why do Dell computers go dead a week after the warranty expired?

6:27 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"building up a lot of pressure which was initially contained"

Contained by what? Also you're talking about how much total Si that is vaporizing which leads to how much pressure buildup? Your analysis is just random speculation. Please provide some facts/data to backup the analysis.

6:31 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

""building up a lot of pressure which was initially contained"

Contained by what? Also you're talking about how much total Si that is vaporizing which leads to how much pressure buildup? Your analysis is just random speculation. Please provide some facts/data to backup the analysis.
"

ICs are hermetically sealed, so when they heat up, the pressure inside builds up until the platic package cracks open and release heat ( and smoke ) suddenly. I've seen it many times happen in the lab when stressing Ics ( purposely or not -)

7:31 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Graham said...

Amazing... Sharikou you should call Dell immediately and tell them that you KNOW it was the processor then they can forego all the fuss of trying to figure out what really happened because the amazing Sharikou has figured it out from around the world without even touching the laptop. You are truly amazing Sharikou. All hail Sharikou and his powers of reasoning! :-)

8:45 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uh, it's about stored energy people. The battery stores all the power for the laptop. There was a catastrophic failure. The battery blew up.....

9:28 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not only Dell's Intel-based machines that have issues.

Apple, Intel's new best girl, has made one crappy Intel notebook after another.

Their newest one, the "MacBook", runs super hot, makes sounds like a cow moo, and the plastic warps due to heat and possibly battery issues.

Once more Turion X2 machines make it to market, there will be better choices for people who are not running apps that fit in 2MB/4MB cache.

9:55 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hari,

Please turn in the institution that issued your PhD to the Better Business Bureau.

Your theories (especially the 'dual core = dual explosions) is a disgrace even to

those who don't have engineering degrees.

I will not even explain why your theories fail the "Achems Razor" test (or have you

ever actually looked at the BOM for a notebook computer and analyzed which

components are most prone to flammability?).

I am a fan of your blog as performance art and humor.

10:50 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ICs are hermetically sealed, so when they heat up, the pressure inside builds up until the platic package cracks open and release heat ( and smoke ) suddenly. I've seen it many times happen in the lab when stressing Ics ( purposely or not -)

do they explode twice in your lab? :)

11:28 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When a short circuit developed, the heat built up within one core rapidly, because of the low thermal conductivity of SI, the other core hadnot reached exploding temperature...any way, there was a small and obvervable time lag between the explosions of the two cores.

the sun cpus have much more cores. if one of these explodes there is a funny firework going on. core, after core, after core...

11:31 PM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

come-on you intel boys lossen up..
explosions are fun, when combined with intel laptops they're hilarious.

12:03 AM, June 28, 2006  
Blogger Sharikou, Ph. D said...

the sun cpus have much more cores. if one of these explodes there is a funny firework going on. core, after core, after core...

SUN's T1 won't explode, it runs CoolThreads, also, it's true multi-core.

1:09 AM, June 28, 2006  
Blogger Bruno Dieter Chan said...

As I said.... if there was a hit of truth in Sharikou's posts it is damn sure those worthless Intel employees will come to defend their almighty chip.

Come on you chicken shits, post your true name and your occupation status in Intel before blowing out words like chunks of shit out of your asses.

1:36 AM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I happen to be studying electrical and power engineering at RTU and can say for sure that capacitors can explode violently. Also, capacitors do actually consume power (related to electrical field specifics they store energy at). And another thing Sharikou..

The official DELL statement actually says that it COULD be due to critical battery failure. They just said that the failure wasn't linked to the problem that caused them to recall those batteries earlyer.

2:41 AM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The official DELL statement actually says that it COULD be due to critical battery failure. They just said that the failure wasn't linked to the problem that caused them to recall those batteries earlyer.

The main issue with various Intel notebooks, not just Dell, is that the *CPU* overheats and causes problems with the batteries.

While the batteries are perhaps the main part of the machine showing symptoms, it is not the root cause.

To fix the problem, the heat management system of an Intel-based notebook has to be reworked to handle the high heat output of Intel's processors.

If you are male and use a notebook on your lap... if you still need/want to reproduce... there are better choices than "Intel Core Meltdown Inside".

For others, well, I'm sure all you need is a HazMat suit and you will be fine. You do like wearing a HazMat suit while surfing your WiFi don't you?

4:17 AM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chan,
Looks like this is a misinformation campaign blog to malign Intel. But I know that you love Intel at the bottom of your heart. Yes, 90% of the world does!

5:30 AM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Wavefreak58 said...

Wow. 2 explosions, 2 cores = definate linkage? How about applying Occam's razor. The components most likely to explode probably did. Battery is first suspect, lots of chemicals capable of exploding. Capacitors can go boom. A cpu overheating? Maybe. Silicon dioxide doesn't burn, so the 2 core 2 explosion theory is a wash. The cpu could conceivably melt the plastic and maybe get hot enough to vaporize it, but where is the oxidizing agent? Can't even burn without oxygen let alone explode and the available oxygen inside a laptop can't be too much especially once it has been displaced by the fumes from the vaporizing plastic.

I go with the battery. The chemical components are there to support combustion. Occam's Razor.

6:06 AM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a fan of your blog as performance art and humor.

Totally agree. I come here for daily entertainment before my company will go bankrupt within 7 quarters (some say within 4/5/6 quarter though)

8:35 AM, June 28, 2006  
Blogger Sharikou, Ph. D said...

I come here for daily entertainment before my company will go bankrupt within 7 quarters (some say within 4/5/6 quarter though)


If you are in sales&marketing, you may be OK. Otherwise, you may need to call your company your former employer very very soon.

9:19 AM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the sun cpus have much more cores. if one of these explodes there is a funny firework going on. core, after core, after core..."

That is a thought :-)

A wild thought if the new super computers in Japan gets over-heated, that will be non-stop firework for more than 20,000 cores(10,000 CPUs). It that is the case, it must be the most expensive firework ever in history LOL..

My guess is the capacitors causing the explosion.

It is funny that so many people hail Sharikou day by day, but they keep coming back to the log day after day.

12:17 PM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's hilarious. You think that a dual core CPU would cause two explosions.

Are you serious? That's the most hilarious thing I've seen in a while. Apparently the explosion of each one is big enough to notice outside the case, but not big enough to instantly include the other core.

You are truly an idiot. I sometimes wonder if maybe Intel isn't paying _you_ - you make yourself and all AMD fanboys look like complete morons.

1:03 PM, June 28, 2006  
Blogger Sharikou, Ph. D said...

"the sun cpus have much more cores. if one of these explodes there is a funny firework going on. core, after core, after core..."

No, it won't. The T1 runs coolthreads, each core consumes only 7 watts. Unlike Intel's 53 watt monster.

1:16 PM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Edward said...

"Silicon dioxide doesn't burn,"

I'm sure you're wrong.

In one of my electronics labs a student burnt a 10W (or maybe 5W - I forgot) power transistor. There was no flame, thankfully, but a clear bursting sound and some smokes.

5:26 PM, June 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I'm sure you're wrong.

In one of my electronics labs a student burnt a 10W (or maybe 5W - I forgot) power transistor."

Power transistor made from SiO2? Hmmm...
Does the sand on the beach near you burn when it gets hot in the summer too?

12:14 AM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you are in sales&marketing, you may be OK. Otherwise, you may need to call your company your former employer very very soon.

Thanks. You make my day again. :)

from the same person that come here for daily entertainment.

5:48 AM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Edward said...

"Power transistor made from SiO2? Hmmm...
Does the sand on the beach near you burn when it gets hot in the summer too?
"

Power transistors contain a layer of SiO2, just like CPUs. Note I did not say that CPU cores would or would not explode. I only said that semiconductor devices CAN explode.

BTW, does the sand on the beach near you do 3D graphics?

Interpret: I find your response irrational and pathetic.

8:01 AM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At least you can enjoy more sleeping on the sandy beach instead of resting a core duo on your lap.

9:03 AM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dell blames battery for exploding notebook

6:14 PM, June 29, 2006  
Blogger Sharikou, Ph. D said...

Dell blames battery for exploding notebook

I suggest everyone take out your notebook, remove the battery and see how a battery explosion could cause a fire at the front of the notebook.

This new report contricted DELL's previous statement regarding the incident.

7:21 PM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even if Dell and Intel know the the root cause do you think they would admit the truth? Letting the battery be the scapegoat is the best answer, from a business point of view that is. From a customer point of view it's easier to swallow an explanation that blames the battery, since the battery vendor can be changed, versus a flaw with the design of the laptop and/or CPU. Either way I'm keeping my jewels far far away from Dell/Intel and will be very cautious of any Dell/Intel laptop users on my next flight. Can you imagine such a fire on a plane? Nevermind, lets kill that thought.

8:21 PM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds potentially catastrophic if the exploding laptop occurs while you're buckled in and cornered against a window seat where you cannot flee from the fire. To add to the fire, the pocket near the front of the tray normally holds newspaper, magazines and other flamable items. The FAA should ban affected laptop from flights until a thorough FAA style investigation is conducted and the fault has been corrected and proven. I'm going to contact the FAA to prevent such an accident from happening.

8:56 PM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like your ANALYSIS IS WRONG Mr. Shari......or should we believe you not them..... Actually I found your ANALYSIS very hilarious....

9:09 PM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a better conjecture. Maybe Sharikou failed his PhD qualifiers or failed an interview at Intel or both :) That would explain his exploded brains and his attitude...

Oh wait, was this about the Dell laptop exploding... nevermind..

10:14 PM, June 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Even if Dell and Intel know the the root cause do you think they would admit the truth? Letting the battery be the scapegoat is the best answer, from a business point of view that is."

Yeah I'm sure the battery manufacturer has no issues getting blamed. Oh wait they were probably paid off...

And while we're at it, we might as well see if Dell and Intel were responsible for the Kennedy assassination.

12:43 AM, June 30, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Exploding batteries are nothing new. Even seen them in handphones.

sharikou says "I suggest everyone take out your notebook, remove the battery and see how a battery explosion could cause a fire at the front of the notebook."

Have you ever opened up a laptop and see the insides? Do you know here the processor is usually located?

Conclusion: BAD ANALYSIS.

12:58 AM, June 30, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"No, it won't. The T1 runs coolthreads, each core consumes only 7 watts. Unlike Intel's 53 watt monster."

53 Watts? How horrid!

In other news, "AMD's Opteron is in the 95-watt range."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20060626/tc_zd/181916

6:01 PM, July 01, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32739

3:34 AM, July 06, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I have analysed it previously. Basically, the si melted and then vaporized, building up a lot of pressure which was initially contained. After reaching a threshold, the thing exploded."

Yes you are imminently qualified to 'analyze' the situation.

Did it occur to you that Si melts at 2577F and boils a 5252F? At these temps the encapsulation would also have become molten as well and NOT BEEN ABLE TO SUSTAIN ANY PRESSURE built up from the core itself? Thus there could not have been an explosion of the CPU.

Or even if the encapsulation did not fail, the chip would have certainly failed. Two explosions + two cores is completely coincidental.

My junior-high school electronics teacher demonstrated to me over 30 years ago the explosive capability of a even a small micro-farad capacitor. It was equivalent to a large firecracker.

Really Sharikou, do you say these things just for the attention?

1:31 PM, July 14, 2006  

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