AMD to frag Intel in price war
Digitimes reported that AMD has decided to eliminate multiple models in preparation for war against Intel. For socket 939, the Athlon 64 X2 4800+ and 3500+ will be the only ones remaining.
The fact that AMD will only produce X2 4800+ is very interesting. It means that AMD's APM process is so advanced, all its chips are virtually identical. There is no bin split. AMD simply mark some chips at lower speed. That was why people can overclock an X2 3800+ to X2 4800+ speeds with stock cooler.
Using APM, AMD can rapidly, accurately and automatically make adjustments as small as 1nm to the critical dimension ... In every transistor, In every chip,
On every wafer. That's roughly 21 billiontransistors per wafer.
posted by Sharikou, Ph. D. @ 6/22/2006 10:30:00 PM
23 Comments:
"The fact that AMD will only produce X2 4800+ is very interesting. It means that AMD's APM process is so advanced, all its chips are virtually identical."
Or it could mean they want to simplify distribution of chips on a socket that is being phased out. Or maybe from pricing perspective they don't want to compete with chips under 4800+?
By your statement above, could I infer the APM process was not so advanced a year or so ago, as they sold chips at different speed grades then? (as they couldn't get them all at one bun split?)
Your arguments around APM are ridiculuos - I'm not saying the technology is not good but it doesn't support your argument on this blog.
I undervolted my ML-37 to 1.15V. Thats lower than MT-40's 1.2V. Also, MT-40 can only undervolt to 1.1V. AMD is selling a lot of their chips underclocked and higher volt.
If APM can assure that all CPUs are at least 4800+, why to bother and sell only one model for the average price?
AMD is going to cut 1MB cache because of DELL, DELL, DELL which is going to order tons of CPU and somebod y must produce that...
Second thing is that this cuts are coming in October. Orders are cut and production is scheduled for H2 06.
"There is no bin split..."
LMAO!
If they are so good why arn't they all FX's, some of your comments are so far fetched.
"Athlon 64 X2 4800+" $632 with price cut of (maximum 46%) = $341 vs. Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (2.13GHz/2M) $224 (projected).
"Athlon 64 X2 3500+" $300 with price cut of (maximum 46%) = $162 vs. Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (1.86GHz/2M) $183 (projected).
As far as I can see why would you want a three year old technology, when you could have a brand new technology, that seems to be very good?
Also the article didn't say when the pricecuts were going to happen, is this like the others July 24?
Looking at this link the 2.13Ghz ($183), damn near beats an FX 60 ($800)...Digitlife.
How is you can sit there and write this, I know your pro AMD, but look at the performance per dollar. Intel has a geat chip, and AMD is in trouble especially on the gaming front, and then on the mobile when Merom comes out.
I enjoy your blog, Keep it up.
Here is some evaluation from a correct information source with tests and it seems the core2duo will "frag" amd's offer
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/623-1/dossier-intel-core-2-duo.html
I hoped it won't happen again...
Better than that, it means that the yields may be as awesome as the up 90%s you said, that means that AMD has the road open all the way to octocores, while Intel, with their multiple dice processors will suffer exponential pains
I think this is stupid.
Higher speed parts, have higher prices, and higher power consuming.
AMD could put only Sempron on 754 and only single core 3000+ to 3500+ in the socket 939 since they are all 512kb cache.
That was a much better choice to get rid of the MOBOS.
Unless the Sempron some years ago on Socket A, didn’t figured out too good at the time.
And the 4800+ X2 are 2MB cache parts, right? The expensive ones too manufacture.
By your statement above, could I infer the APM process was not so advanced a year or so ago, as they sold chips at different speed grades then? (as they couldn't get them all at one bun split?)
No. They only makes X2 4800+ absolutely proves that there is no chips that are below that operating frequency within the 89 watt thermal envelope. AMD is now operating with APM 3.0.
"AMD could put only Sempron on 754 and only single core 3000+ to 3500+ in the socket 939 since they are all 512kb cache."
It'd be bad for the consumers if AMD only produce 3000+/3500+ in socket 939. All those people who purchased socket 939 mobos (like me) now have no way to upgrade except changing both the mobo AND memory!
On the other hand, what AMD is doing means I can still pleasantly upgrade my 3500+ or even X2 3800+ 1 year from now and extend the life of my desktop (mobo+memory).
"As far as I can see why would you want a three year old technology, when you could have a brand new technology, that seems to be very good?"
Because he bought a good mobo and 2GB memory for that 3-year-old technology, which is still better than what Intel's currently selling.
Because I have a server running flawlessly for 1.5 years and I expect it to do so for another 2-3 years by just spending $300 for CPU upgrade instead of $2000 for a whole server.
There's just a tiny <1% population called "enthusiasts," who would reinstall their operating systems just because Intel came out a new socket or chipset.
Dear Edward...
Have you ever heard of Sysprep? No need to reinstall windows.
You run servers huh?
"Have you ever heard of Sysprep? No need to reinstall windows.
You run servers huh?"
If you don't understand the problem, try not to speak like a moron...
To upgrade to the "latest (Intel) technology," the chipset is changed & drivers (APIC, ACPI, or even some PnP devices) are new, tell me how to sysprep for such previously unavailable platform? Or are you going to make a sysprep image for the new drivers every time you upgrade a PC? Yeah that's really easy...
BTW, I don't run servers in Windows. I do automatic compilation from sources with CVS repository storing latest stable kernels & modules. Even with the whole thing being so automatic, it's still much simpler to just change the CPU than the whole motherboard + memory + drivers. Any child can see that, can't you?
I really don't know who are you going to confuse here? Yourself probably. The point is AMD is allowing an upgrade path, one most enthusiasts simply don't understand. If you can't see that, ... well ... go with you sysprep.
Ok Edward, I may have been wrong in saying "You run servers huh?"...
Sorry about that, I wasn't really trying to be a d1@k.
First off my comments really only pertain to gaming, that might clear up a few of your comments.
As for what I have read the chipset for i975x has not changed, only power requirements.
In regards to Sysprep, well I have had to do a few of them, (granted its not always the best choice, but if your office is busy and you cant be down a computer for more than a day, its a good resource to have), and I found it quite simple, hence why I said the comment.
On the other hand, when you purchase the motherboard you recieve a disc with the drivers. So your comment about "tell me how to sysprep for such previously unavailable platform" is not valid.
"The point is AMD is allowing an upgrade path, one most enthusiasts simply don't understand."
I see your point, but, for gaming, and all the benchmarks out there showing Conroe to be a very good chip, even the low end chips, people that like to play games usually want the best performance, and to get the performance sometimes you have to upgrade more than a CPU.
Again sorry for the comment.
two words:
CAPACITY ISSUES
If they do drop their prices, they will make no money.. Can they peg to build the 2 or 3 fabs they are talking about?
If they do drop their prices, they will make no money.. Can they peg to build the 2 or 3 fabs they are talking about?
You have to know AMD's ASP was only $95 and Intel's ASP was $150. Search "price war" in this blog and see my previous analysis
Wouldn't the highest ASP win the price war?
If Intel is around 150 it would make sense that they have more room to play with?
Plus the sheer volume of chips Intel puts out there, means even more positives for Intel (in a price war)?
I am defenitely not into economics, so could you elaborate a little?
I read your other article but I think I'm missing something.
Thanks.
It'd be bad for the consumers if AMD only produce 3000+/3500+ in socket 939. All those people who purchased socket 939 mobos (like me) now have no way to upgrade except changing both the mobo AND memory!
You can still upgrade you 939 Motherboard. It's called ebay. When I upgrade from 939 to AM2 what do you think I'm going to do with my old Motherboard, processor and memory?
"Wouldn't the highest ASP win the price war?
If Intel is around 150 it would make sense that they have more room to play with?
Plus the sheer volume of chips Intel puts out there, means even more positives for Intel (in a price war)?
I am defenitely not into economics, so could you elaborate a little?
I read your other article but I think I'm missing something.
Thanks."
AMD's ASP is $95 but it still has a higher profit margin than Intel. If Intel drops its ASP then it needs to sell mroe chips to cover the lost in ASP, but from the looks of it, no one is going to buy NetBursts and everyone is waiting for Conroe.
So as long as AMD can sell more chips to cover the lost in price, then it'll have the same profit margin and win the price war.
"As for what I have read the chipset for i975x has not changed, only power requirements."
Let's say the user has an Athlon64 3000+ that he bought 3 years ago. A year ago when he upgraded to dual core, he could buy a 3800+ and plug it in. A year later when he upgrades again, he can buy a 4800+ and plug it in.
Tell me how he can use sysprep to make things as cheap and as easy on any Intel platform?
THAT user is someone I know. He is a demanding computer user that he performs heavy graphics and modeling. To him, it's clear that AMD's product roadmap is much more consumer-centric than Intel.
"On the other hand, when you purchase the motherboard you recieve a disc with the drivers."
Some changes (which are quite common with new mobo releases) cannot be adjusted by drivers. See Microsoft website for detail.
"people that like to play games usually want the best performance, and to get the performance sometimes you have to upgrade more than a CPU."
Fine. 1% market share. Or maybe 5%. That's also one of my points.
"Again sorry for the comment."
It is taken.
"You can still upgrade you 939 Motherboard. It's called ebay. When I upgrade from 939 to AM2 what do you think I'm going to do with my old Motherboard, processor and memory?"
I'm sure you ARE NOT (since you bought AMD CPU, haha), but please stop acting like a moron.
My whole point is I don't want/need to upgrade my 939 mobo, which is already top of the line. Most people also don't want to reinstall (hardware & software) the PC in order to use a faster, dual core processor. Thus AMD's 939 4800+ offering IS better to consumers.
Why is such a simple idea so difficult to grasp by those enthusiasts?
I'll try again - when AMD had different bin splits A YEAR OR SO AGO, could I infer the APM process was not SO ADVANCED A YEAR AGO OR SO, as they sold chips at different speed grades then? (as they couldn't get them all at one bin split?)
And please inform the masses of the technology improvement specifics of APM3.0 vs APM2.0 (or whatever the last APM rev was). I'd be willing to guess that you have no clue how APM actually works.
Hey Edward...
I'm the guy that said the dumb comment about you run servers huh, again it was un called for, but reading your reply to this comment...
"You can still upgrade you 939 Motherboard. It's called ebay. When I upgrade from 939 to AM2 what do you think I'm going to do with my old Motherboard, processor and memory?"
It would seem that you thought that I had written it, just wanted to clarify that I had not, I'm an Intel guy...lol
Thanks.
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