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Turion 64 X2 enables dual core mobile 64 bit computing for the American middle class, while DELL pushes dirt cheap 32 bit Core Duo to the poor. Since Intel Merom won't be ready till August 2006, AMD will own 100% of the dual core 64 bit computing for a whole quarter.
posted by Sharikou, Ph. D. @ 5/09/2006 09:48:00 AM
25 Comments:
Explain to me why anyone needs a 64bit notebook computer. Are notebook users constrained by the 4GB RAM limit? No. Are notebook users complaining that they can't run the latest business applications like word processors, spreadsheets, presentation programs, PIMs or development tools? No. These are all 32bit apps. How about the inability to run the latest games. Nope. These are 32bit as well.
As someone who has used notebook computers exclusively for over ten years and usually buys the top end of the latest generation when replacing my notebooks, I see no need for 64bit computing on a notebook (yet).
I guess I'm at a loss as to why HP/Compaq seem determined to saddle their Turion offerings with the ATI X200 IGP graphics (often times using shared memory!) while offering higher-end ATI graphics or nVidia GO series video on their Intel platforms.
Are they hand-tied by some agreement to not be able to bundle better graphics with their AMD offerings or is this because they refuse to buy chipsets without this IGP? I've noticed this trend with other vendors as well. There are a few exceptions to this but, generally, unless you go to an enthusiast notebook shop you're not getting a fast graphic subsystem with your AMD notebooks. Why is this?
I'm sure this business decision isn't helping their sales of these chips and seems to be playing out into Intel's favor as people in the know might go Intel even though they know the Turions are faster to get a decent IGP/mobile graphic solution with their laptop.
I think Intel has totaly messed with with their branding ..core solo core dou ?? and now Core 2 ..
In the middle of the confusion I also read "centrino duo" ..what the heck is this ??
I am sure by the end of the year their processorws will have simple like apple, orange and perhaps donkey..
"Are they hand-tied by some agreement to not be able to bundle better graphics with their AMD offerings"
I see Intel at work here too ..100%
Could you post a link to some benchmarks comparing the two processors youor talking about?
I think Intel has totaly messed with with their branding ..core solo core dou
This is a Korean naming system, only Eric Kim can explain it.
I use Dell at work. It is great computer by design but...I would like to install 64-bit Linux on it - and I cannot. Why? Because it is faster.
So as a corporate user I belive that my next notebook will be Dell Turion X2 or X4 maybe...Why not? :)
Do it Michael. Money is not everything! I WANT DELL NOTEBOOK WITH AMD CHIP INSIDE.
"Why anyone needs a 64bit notebook computer" Your points are reasonable and strong.
However, I heard the same point of views 10+ years ago when people started using 32bit computer. By the way, why anyone needs a 32bit computer?
To the second poster:
Then explain to me why anyone needs a dual or even quad core notebook processor. Do you really run multiple processor-intensive programs at the same time on laptops?
Guess what? When Windows Vista comes out, everything will be 64bit, regardless of the amount of RAM you'll be using. Your office app is 64bit. Your music programs are 64bit. Do you expect your "all so wonderful" core solo/core duo to run on Windows Vista?
Eric Kim gives me a hard time understanding his naming system, even though i'm from asia too.
Core Solo/Duo are ridiculous enough. Core Duo 2? what kind of name is that?
I guess I'm at a loss as to why HP/Compaq seem determined to saddle their Turion offerings with the ATI X200 IGP graphics (often times using shared memory!) while offering higher-end ATI graphics or nVidia GO series video on their Intel platforms.
It's quite obvious, it's about power and heat. When Core Duos are using less power than the single-core low voltage Turion MT, there's no way a laptop manufacturer can fit a power hungry CPU and video card into a reasonable size package.
When Core Duos are using less power than the single-core low voltage Turion MT
Core Duo is a 53 watt chip.
Explain to me why anyone needs a 64bit notebook computer.Are notebook users constrained by the 4GB RAM limit?
The need is there - e.g., virtualization could benefit from a large and uniform address space. Games are always constrained by address space, too. A 1km^2 scene with 10cm resolution will take 10G "points" right away.
How about the ability to put the 60GB junks from my HD to an array of flash memory directly addressable by the processor? I could even instanteously power up my notebook into Windows because no code/data segments need to be transferred from discs to addressable memory. Today you could have diskless "embedded" systems precisely because the address space is large enough for the whole operating system.
Core Solo/Duo are ridiculous enough. Core Duo 2? what kind of name is that?
It actually sounds quite merry to me: core-to-do-oh! Sounds like a MacDonald's ad for the children, doesn't it? ;-p
Core Duo is a 53 watt chip.
No, including losses to the motherboards voltage regulators, Core Duo 2.16 uses 25.4W while running two copies of CPUBurn. A low voltage single-core Turion MT 2.2 uses 26.4W.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article313-page5.html
The Core Duo uses 31W, not 53W. Check it yourself: http://processorfinder.intel.com/
Placing it (roughly) in between the two versions of the Turion processor in terms of power consumption.
Unfortunatly the AMD offerings won't be available for a while. AMD blames the Vista delay, but I don't buy that. They probably see a value in dedicating production capacity to other cores.
Explain to me why anyone needs a 64bit notebook computer.
Why does Toyota sell Luxus, why does Honda sell Acura, why does Ford have a GT? Because there is always a need for bigger and better! (So you must drive a Ford Focus).
I think Intel has totaly messed with with their branding...
Your absolutely right! And I'm loving it. Let this Eric Kim guy keep messing things up!
As for ATI, I think they have some kind of optimization with the Athlon architecture or something like being connected to the HT bus????
The Core Duo uses 31W, not 53W
31 watt is typical usage. AMD's TDP are theoretical maximums. If you dig out Intel's PDFs, the theoretical max for Core Duo is 53 watts.
31 watt is typical usage. AMD's TDP are theoretical maximums. If you dig out Intel's PDFs, the theoretical max for Core Duo is 53 watts.
Why do you ignore actual measurements from SilentPCReview? Core Duo 2.16's maximum power consumption is 20W running a power virus in CPU Burn, less than the single-core low voltage Turion MT.
Unfortunatly the AMD offerings won't be available for a while. AMD blames the Vista delay, but I don't buy that. They probably see a value in dedicating production capacity to other cores.
Or more likely, they're finding it difficult to make enough at 1.075v, the voltage low enough where they might be able to hit their 35W TDP.
real.genius said....
64 bit will shortly be the standard not 32 bit.
64 bit is more than just software, it also affects hardware physical addressing and hardware configurations.
Of course there is the 32 bit mode built into 64 bit equipment to run all your antique 32 bit software games and such, legacy modes.
But soon only 64 bit software will be in use to speed up over weight software performance.
Frankly, windows will be the only game box left since most serious software apps. are written in Linux 64 bit.
Really, only in America has 32 bit legacy windows held on, most world wide commercial software has migrated to professional 64 bit Linux software.
I am sure 32 bit America will eventually catch up to the rest of the 64 bit world regardless of the gamers who don't wish to advance technology past 32 bit.
However, a AMD FX60 is still the fastest gaming chip you can buy and it is 64 bit.
Supplementary Information :
Currently:
AMD Turion 64 ML: 35 watts
AMD Turion 64 MT: 25 watts
I am a freelance IT consultant, reason for me to have 64bit computer:
I want 64bit Linux
I want 64bit RDBMS
I want to simulate the large scale deployment on my laptop with virtual environment having a DB server, an application server and a client browser.
I may not be a typical user, but that is what I want.
Perhaps Dell is not going with AMD because the Woodcrest servers processors are being launched next month, followed by Conroe in July, and Merom in August. These parts should clearly make Intel competitive with AMD again.
The problem is though, that when you get to quad cores, AMD has it's HyperTransport technology that provides tons of bandwith. Intel still has the ancient FSB setup going, and the new FSB that these processors will be using maxes out at 1600mhz. A 1600mhz FSB is not fast enough for a quad core processor.
Future:
AMD Turion 64 X2 MT: 25 watts
Intel Core 2 Duo ULV: 5 watts
Incorrect comparison, don't it? You'll never get the ULV-version with the same performance as the top MT-version has. AMD have not it's ULV version for now but it will obtain it with 65 nm and than you'll can get something better then Core 2 Duo:)
Incorrect comparison, don't it? You'll never get the ULV-version with the same performance as the top MT-version has. AMD have not it's ULV version for now but it will obtain it with 65 nm and than you'll can get something better then Core 2 Duo:)
The Turion X2 MT, if it ever gets released at all, running at 1.075v is essentially a ULV model. However, the standard voltage 2.16GHz Core Duo is a 20W real-world measured maximum power consumption CPU, so Intel already beats AMD's ULV model with a standard processor. And Merom will be even better. AMD needs a process generation advantage to have any hopes of matching Intel in performance/watt.
http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/9955
It seems that the turion 64 x2 processors may be coming out in just a few days. Also, it will run on 35 watts.
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