Another missing Conroe benchmark: stability
We heard stories about Woodcrest servers crapping out all over the place and got rejected by US government. What about Conroe, which is essentially the same chip?
INQ reported its first hand experience with the new Intel chip.
Compared to Athlon 64 FX62, the 2.93GHZ Con XE 6800 shows 25-31.8% lead in FarCry, 0% lead in FEAR, 6.7% lead in Quake 4, 10.7% lead in UT 2004 16-bot match. With the exception of FarCry, the CON XE 6800 and Athlon 64 FX62 are within 10% of difference. With K8L promising massive performance and scalability increases over K8, we will see AMD commanding a 40% lead over Conroe in just a few months time, even before Intel is able to ramp Conroe production to 25% of its volume.
Compared to Pentium XE 955, Athlon 64 FX62 leads 47% in FarCry, leads 30% in FEAR, leads 65% in Quake 4, leads 60.9% in UT2004. No wonder an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ can frag a Pentium Exteme Edition 965. However, I don't remember ever hearing the kind of excitement before from Anand, Tom or anyone else about AMD's massive lead over Pentium XE.
Athlon 64 FX62 defeats Con XE 6800 in ScienceMark 2.0, demonstrating superior floating point performance. This result is consistent with the SpecFP_rate_2000 results, where an 2P Opteron 2.6GHZ outperforms a 2P Woodcrest 3GHZ. Woodcrest is for entry level 2P market only. x4600 with 8P Opteron outperforms 16P HP Superdome.
As I pointed out earlier, the Conroe benchmarks prove only one thing: the $7 billion Pentium 4/XE/Celeron inventory Intel has at hand and was touting is a pile of crap and now Intel admits it.
But that is not all, read what INQ had to say on stability of the Conroe:
"However, there is still one thing that disturbs me about the Intel Conroes. The load times on our Far Cry tests simply took ages, regardless of whether we used a NetWurst craptecture or Core marchitecture. AMD loads FarCry in a matter of seconds, and in this particular game, we feel like watching Athlon 64 to complete SuperPI after running Conroe for three years. B-o-o-o-ring. A big surprise for me was the fact that Quake 4 gameplay also experienced more hiccups on Conroe platform than it did on a competing AMD platform."
I suggest SuperPi runners always check the digits output from Conroe and make sure the numbers are right.
posted by Sharikou, Ph. D. @ 7/15/2006 08:53:00 AM
80 Comments:
That is a bit odd, because you'll notice 40 other review sites didn't mention anything about any problems. More than likely something was setup wrong
This is so stupid. Why concede the superiority of a processor that only does well in 32 bit programming? I don't care what you or the reviews say. The fact of the matter is that C2D is inferior when it comes to Vista and 64 bit programming. That means when Vista comes out, C2D will load it slower, run it slower, and even 32 bit programs on Vista will run 25% slower with a C2D. Sure, Intel may match AMD slightly right now but the last time I checked, we don't buy processors for only a few months.
I wholly agree with the previous posts. K8L is a superior design. Intel just copied it and with the additions, Intel should fall behind even a Sempron version of the K8L. When January comes, AMD, with its superior manufacturing capabilities will demolish this Conroe thing created by a greedy corporation. I for one, will still purchase a FX62 and use the 4x4 platform in support of the true enthusiast chip and the company that actually recognizes enthusiasts and because I actually want my items to be future proof.
Not only is stability amiss, Intel completely underestimated its power. Read the HardOCP review. If this dumb TDP is 65-75W how come the tests all show it coming at over 200? You guys are so blind.
The reviews of Conroe are all deviant from each other. There is a huge marketing machine at work and the funny thing is they can't even be consistent. Just because Intel finally bribed everyone doesn't mean we should hail it as an achievement. Perhaps it is a great con, but not a great CPU. There's a big difference.
Comment what you will you Intel fanbois. Intel pulled the wool over your eyes and you don't even know. Geez. Intel is like a religion for some. Why can't they just get it that they aren't right?
We need to man AMD's defenses. They guarded us and gave us a second option when Intel shoved 386 crap down our throats at 10000000 dollars a shot; then K8 came and we won. Now in their darkest time, we can stand as a beacon to truth and a repellant against Intel's pure marketing and lack of innovation. Let's wait 7 quarters for a Pax AMD once Intel goes bankrupt for its corruption and monopolistic leanings. Then the computer enthusiast will finally get his/her retribution.
Long live AMD!
That Lame score with conroe :O
Maybe they should compress few CD's and look if they work? :D
Thanks for the link and there contain answer on the RAID5 issue.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33049
However, do not place four drives in RAID5 before the BIOS update or B-2 revision of CPU kicks in.
All CPU sold are B2 and above. There was a known problem in engineering sample. B2 is in production since June. (lazy to grab picuture, there is a site with name extreme something one, they have B2 CPU, with manufacturing date back to early June, you can choose to google this, or just do not believe me)
So, i wonder would you clarify this in your blog, where you have been claiming Intel CPU has RAID problem ...or you continue to hold your statement by saying "NO, the engineering sample has the problem!"
intresting test. even inquirer comes to the same conclusion like all the other sites:
Intel has regained the performance crown.
Looks like once the game (Farcry) is loaded, Core 2 Duo rocks hard.
Playing games on AMD's overpriced Special Olympics handicapable chips... now that is... b o r i n g.
As for stability, AMD has *zero* track record of stable systems themselves.
All the initial Opteron systems were shit. Anyone remember the B3 stepping? Talk about random crashes for months while AMD figured out how to patch the BIOS.
What comes next? 4x4 is going to need so many patches AMD will have to invent "HyperStepping" to go along with "HyperSmoke" and "HyperMirrors".
And if 4x4 doesn't go over well with the market, as it likely won't, we'll see "HyperPump&Dump".
I gotta say... even bringing up "stability" for a chip that has not even shipped yet is slimy, just like AMD & its associates.
Intel's Conroe will not be perfect. Okay, we get this. But it will be a lot faster than AMD and a lot less money. To get the speed you don't have to BK yourself on DDR2-800 RAM like you need on AMD.
Overall, Conroe is a home run. It does what the market needs very very well. It is the first chip since the Pentium III era that Intel has really done a good job.
So give Intel some credit. They've done some great stuff back in the day. Maybe we are seeing the beginning of a return to glory. Which would be good for the entire tech industry.
Yes inquirer being the reliable source of journalism as it is. I am still waiting for my reverse hyperthreading and the bios update that they promised. Another great source of information by the doctor to back up his claims why dont you answer the first MISSING BENCHMARK before you go on posting the second one.
FRAGILICIOUS!
AMDs top of the line takes another fragging here
I guess we can say the pieces that were left over have been fragged some more and now AMDs top-o-the-line is just dust now. As for the link in this article... they probably didn't setup the system right. I have seen games load on Conroe extremely quickly.
Thats true I've never heard anyone talking about Conroes stability. Maybe that was part of the NDA, jk. anyway I didn't read that article on INQ until now, and I read there stuff all the time. Its interesting that Conroe has some problems, even if it does though they would probably get all those fixed after the first few weeks of shipping the chips. Kinda like the XBox 360 problems.
cybersurge.blogspot.com
Thank God at least the Inquirer have not turned into paid pumpers!
Every other site on earth has turned into a paid pumper... Including *gasp* PlanetAMD64.com...
We all know Conroes are utter crap, even a 2800+ will be able to beat the X6800 in every benchmark if configured properly... And with K8L coming in November, AMD will own!!!
http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&id=70202&threadid=70202&roomid=11
Read that. The reason why it takes ages to load.
Desperation is a stinky cologne, and you reek of it.
There was on thing that shocked me in the US Government refusing Woodcrest machines.
Given the fact that:
a) I simply cannot believe that Intel wasn't aware of Woodcrest stability problem.
b) Two days later (or something like that) stepping B2 was ready and shipping.
Is Intel so dumb to send to such a tester a machine they knew was crippled and bugged, and losing million of dollars worth in revenue?
If they didn't know the presence of the bug, how the hell did they managed to correct it in a two weeks time??
where you have been claiming Intel CPU has RAID problem
Let me make this crystal clear again. INQ reported that Woodcrest was crapping out all over the place, not the RAID problem it reported on Conroe.
Nice try with playing SpecFP rate numbers.
As you said Opteron gets following scores:
SpecFP rate peak: 85
SpecFP rate base: 76.5
For some reason you missed HP's submission for Woodcrest:
http://www.spec.org/osg/cpu2000/results/res2006q3/cpu2000-20060626-06329.html
That has following score:
SpecFP rate peak: 85.9
SpecFP rate base: 81.1
The Inq had reported that another stepping of the Conroes would be released, maybe that's the reason for the strange performance.
Oh, by the way sharikou, you have a typo on Far Cry, you wrote Far Cray, first line, third paragraph.
I believe it is unfair to accuse all of the hardware review sites of having been paid by Intel. Accepting money to skew test systems is very different from writing in a biased manner from one’s on volition. I think it makes complete sense for hardware sites to heap excessive amounts of praise onto Conroe: AMD has been beating Intel for a very, very long time now. I remember seeing articles with titles like “FX-55, nails in the Intel Coffin.” After news like that for about two years, why not make a big deal about Intel’s major shift to get some new interest going? The hardware sites need readers to get money from their advertisement. : )
looking at the inq, Core scales from single thread to two threads better than the Athlons X2 !
LAME Mp3
Core EE:
one thread : 2:37
multithread: 1:25
ideal : 1:18:50
Athlon FX-62
one thread : 3:20
two threads: 2:31
ideal : 1:40
Overall, Conroe is a home run.
Conroe has availability issues, and part of it's "home run" strategy is to get as many sources as possible spouting about how great it is long before most people can buy them.
As it is, reliability of competitively priced parts available to consumers has not been demonstrated.
It's official. AMD's game is up. Intel is the new sheriff! And Sheriff Conroe is kicking yesteryear's overpriced AMD junkpiles out of town on the next HyperTransport!!!
This just in from a very fair and thorough review site:
First of all I would like to point out that new Intel processors on Core microarchitecture boast very impressive performance. The improvements Intel introduced in them have certainly helped create today’s most efficient x86 processor design. And the results of our Core 2 Duo E6300 tests prove it. Although the newcomer works at lower nominal clock speed than AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+, it demonstrates absolute advantage in most applications. Therefore, if AMD doesn’t drop the prices of its dual-core processors even lower (which is unlikely so far), we will have to state that Intel offers a way better price-to-performance ration for the mainstream and high-end segment.
And Overclocking wouldn’t help here. As we have just seen in this article, the youngest Core 2 Duo models boast very good overclocking potential. In fact, it is much better than that of other CPUs from the same price range. During our test session we managed to overclock Intel Core 2 Duo by more than 50% without touching its Vcore and using an air cooler. However, we didn’t even come close to revealing its entire overclocking potential, because of the hardware-related issues of the platform we used.
As we have already said, Core 2 Duo processors have their clock frequency multiplier locked at a relatively low value. As a result, the mainboards used for overclocking experiments like that should allow increasing the FSB frequency quite significantly. Unfortunately, the ASUS P5W DH Deluxe mainboard we used could only support 420MHz FSB frequency. That is why we didn’t manage to get more impressive results. Although, what we achieved was quite remarkable already, I should say.
This way, Core 2 Duo E6300 processor can be regarded as a great choice within its price group. However, when you build a system around it, you should pay special attention to the mainboard you pick, because it will determine your maximum overclocking potential. Therefore, smart mainboard choice is a crucial moment when putting together a system with Intel Core microarchitecture based processor.
"K8L is a superior design. Intel just copied it and with the additions, Intel should fall behind even a Sempron version of the K8L."
Hmmm.... Intel copied a design which is even out yet? Does that mean they have superior development/ manufacturing teams as they were wable to copy a product and get it to market before the K8L? (Yeah that makes sense).
"I for one, will still purchase a FX62 and use the 4x4 platform in support of the true enthusiast chip and the company that actually recognizes enthusiasts and because I actually want my items to be future proof."
Good to see PT Barnum's saying still holds today....
"Then the computer enthusiast will finally get his/her retribution."
Yup in the form of a $1500-2500 expense for a 4x4 motherboard and 2 chips.
AMD Retribution said: "Not only is stability amiss, Intel completely underestimated its power. Read the HardOCP review. If this dumb TDP is 65-75W how come the tests all show it coming at over 200? You guys are so blind."
Please tell me you are kidding! The AMD FX62 on the same graph came in at 157Watt and in full load was 248W which was 25W higher than the Conroe.
This was system power, Moron! Perhaps you have trouble seeing through your AMD rose colored glasses...unless of course AMD is also vastly underestimating the power of its chips, too? :)
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTExMSwyLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
"Conroe has availability issues"
Conroe officially launches July 23rd, as it is 8 days prior to then, then yes, availability is an issue right now.
This blog seems to attract some tech-savvy people. I just have a question.
Even if A64 frags C2D in 64-bit performance, how much does that matter? Isn't Intel doing the smart thing by catering to 32-bit since they supposedly want to introduce new archetectures every 2 years? It seems to me that they're waiting for the time when 64-bit capability would have a significant benefit, much the same as AMD held off on DDR2
Conroe has availability issues
How do you know?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=50001157+2010340343+1302820275+1050922423&Submit=ENE&Subcategory=343
Woodcrest is in stock and ready to ship. Newegg was even listing the X6800 for a while on July 14th until Intel told them to pull it.
If you live in Montreal, Canada then just go out and buy one already:
http://www.microbytes.com/computer/ordinateur/index.php?cPath=2020000_2022000&mBqSiD=0cf9a502791359f8e7d537d41b47b1a7
The fact of the matter is that C2D is inferior when it comes to Vista and 64 bit programming. That means when Vista comes out, C2D will load it slower, run it slower, and even 32 bit programs on Vista will run 25% slower with a C2D.
http://www.planetamd64.com/index.php?showtopic=24551
Read an AMD and 64-bit fansite review then.
Yes you heard right Planetx64.com (that's the same people that run PlanetAMD64.com) has had the chance to test Intel's new flagship the Core 2 line.
They compare the Core 2 Duo E6700 and the Core 2 Extreme X6800 against the AM2 X2 5000+ and FX-62.
"The evaluation as it stands is still enough to show that Intel has finally pulled their collective heads out of the sand and gotten back into the performance game… and with a vengeance. They were not satisfied with meeting the AM2’s performance, they surpassed it significantly."
"With the exception of FarCry, the CON XE 6800 and Athlon 64 FX62 are within 10% of difference."
Wow, when I read the reviews I thought I saw alot of other games being benhmarked, guess Im blind or have Intel blinders on... lol.
There are plenty of games being reviewed, try to look at more than 4, or is that how/what you have to do to make AMD look good?
Funny how you don't mention benchmarks that don't include gaming (multitasking, etc...), AMD got beat, thats all you should have said, but instead you rant and rave, and only show your FANBOYISM for AMD by comparing AMD to P4, regardless of which one it is.
Conroe good, AMD expensive. Well see what kind of price cuts they have in mind, but for your dollar Intel is the sure bet.
Also... Talk about availabilty on this blog in regards to Conroe, well what about K8L, is that going to be available, and reasonably priced... be honest, of course it won't.
Could point us to some links (not on your blog) in regards of your claims that K8L will be out in a few months, and to the claims your making here "With K8L promising massive performance and scalability increases over K8".
Thanks.
Even if A64 frags C2D in 64-bit performance, how much does that matter?
64bit gets more and more important as the launch of microsoft vista nears. after the release of vista in only a few weeks, no 32bit software will be available!
"Even if A64 frags C2D in 64-bit performance, how much does that matter?"
No, A64 doesn't frag C2D in 64-bit, it only looses a bit less.
"Isn't Intel doing the smart thing by catering to 32-bit since they supposedly want to introduce new archetectures every 2 years?"
I don't think so. Intel had been playing such waiting & upgrading game with the Core Duo chips, which are 32-bit only. But C2D's 64-bit implementation is a good one, at least compared to all previous x64 chips from Intel.
People tend to mix up C2D's good performance with architectural (not microarchitectural) advantage, which K8, 4x4, and K8L definitely have. It is no contest that, as I've numerously said, C2D beats K8 in single-process performance by 15% in average. If the world would end in 2008, then yes, C2D and its decendents will be the kings of processors; otherwise I bet Intel's working their head off to realize CSI as quickly as possible.
In short, the UMA & monolithic approach of processor design is getting over. Like x64, Intel knows that the future direction is what AMD's been heading first.
C2D beats K8 by 15%~20% in average.
Type "http://www.intel.com/" then press ENTER.
What do you see?
What do you think of that marketing bullshit?
Maybe the 'competition' they speak about is the P4...
"64bit gets more and more important as the launch of microsoft vista nears. after the release of vista in only a few weeks, no 32bit software will be available!"
This is prety funny as probably the same thing was said a year ago, and the year before that... how long has Vista been delayed now?
The last part is even funnier, isn't it coming up within the next few months where Microsoft will officially stop supporting Windows 98? Yeah, as soon as Vista comes out all 32bit SW will cease to be available - good one!
Whenever Vista is finally released there will be a LONG transistion from 32bit to 64bit just like previous transistions - there is simply too much SW, written by so many different companies to expect a magical switch to instantly occur.
If Intel is successful in off -loading its 7 billion inventory of crap heaters, can you do a quick estimate of the Power wastage as the total $ amount lost in an Year ??
AMD Fannies,
Bend over an grease up. It is going to be rough and painful.. But again you know that, don't you!
Quotes from all the indpendent testers... not one comment about any stability issues.
Get over it
"But make no mistake, what you see before you is not the power hungry, poor performing, non-competitive garbage (sorry guys, it's the truth) that Intel has been shoving down our throats for the greater part of the past five years. No, you're instead looking at the most impressive piece of silicon the world has ever seen, at the fastest desktop processor we've ever tested. What you're looking at is Conroe, and today is its birthday."
--Anandtech.com
"Intel once again has the fastest desktop processor on the market...If you're after the best performing desktop processor on the planet, you're going to be shopping for an Intel Core 2 processor." --Reg Hardware
"After years of wandering in the wilderness, Intel has recaptured the desktop CPU performance title in dramatic fashion." --The Tech Report
"For the first time in about two years, Intel is offering a superior desktop processor that may cause more than just a headache for AMD." --Tom's Hardware Guide
"There is no doubt that when it comes to editing video, manipulating images or encoding music, the Intel Core 2 Duo and Extreme processors at 2.66GHz and above currently enjoy a healthy performance advantage over AMD's Athlon FX and Athlon 64 line of processors. Moreover, I would be remiss if I did not mention the Core 2 Duo and Extreme also do a great job of making the Pentium 4 look like a dinosaur." --Hard OCP
4core/4sockets 3.0GHz Opteron owns 4core/2sockets 3.0GHz Woodcrest
And my point is? -Intel payed to everyone on the net to post 1000 and one FAKE bench.... i cant use that word, it used to represent independent research but not anymore as you can see.
"64bit gets more and more important as the launch of microsoft vista nears. after the release of vista in only a few weeks, no 32bit software will be available!"
AMD fans just cant handle this turn of events. 64bit for mainstream windows user is years away. I bet that 64bit windows XP right now has >1% of the installed base as XP 32bit. Factor in all other versions of windows and its probably >.0001%.
I bet Vista sells more copies of the 32bit version in the first year.
Please tell what 64bit applications joe user currently runs?
What games...in the top 10 are 64bit?
Face it.....even at 64bit Conroe wins....uses less power...and cost less. That is the plain truth.
The owner of this blog.....total freaking nut job.
I bet he creates this blog as a research project....because no one can be that F@cking stupid.
Conroe has availability issues
How do you know?
It's not on newegg.com, and one review site says it doesn't expect it to be there until late August.
When a Conroe finally does come out, check to see if it's a ~ $350 E6600, which is the sweet spot with the 4MB cache. The E6400 and E6300 only have 2MB, and the E6700 and X6800 are ~ $550 and $1,000+ respectively.
Intel fangirls are amazing; they all tout how cheap Intel crap is compared to AMD. For years it was the other way around with no complaints when Intel was on the cutting edge. Now that Intel is in the crapper on technology they have to cut there prices just to compete. My suggestion would be for you to get a job so you can afford gear-up proper. Conroe’s 32 bit 15 minutes of fame is almost over.
"And my point is? -Intel payed to everyone on the net to post 1000 and one FAKE bench...."
No... I have to say that the new round of benchmarks on those websites are valid, though some of them are poorly done. The link you referred only shows K8's better scalability toward multi-core, and that's already known to the world (except Intel fanboys).
Woodcrest wins clearly over Opteron on single socket; it hardly wins on dual sockets, and it loses on four sockets and above. If the future of computing is indeed going multi-core, then C2D, in short, is a marketing tool designed to obsolete within a year or two.
Another stupid post and crap derived from the INQUIRER? You've got NOWHERE ELSE to TURN TO but your fanboi buddy Charlie? Pathetic!
Some of the Conroe/Woodcrest instability issues may be due to hot spots on the chip.
Core Duo 1.0 is having major major heating issues:
Cook breakfast with your MacBook
Everyone knows that Apple's Intel powered portable lineup gets hot, but this is insane! An enterprising fellow figured out that it would be possible to actually fry an egg on the bottom of his black MacBook. Granted, it probably took something like 3 times as long than if he had used a stove, but thats obviously not the point. For bonus points, keep your coffee warm by placing it on top of your MacBook power adapter.
While obviously a stab at Apple for releasing such hot machines, I think its important to understand the fact that Apple has no control over how hots Intel's processors run. I'm sure the engineers in Cupertino do their best to make the machines run as cool as possible, but there are some things that even Ive and his team can't do."
People are cooking complete breakfast on their Core Duo laptops.
So it would not be at all surprising if Core 2 Duo has hot spots too.
Obviously a quality heatsink and thermal paste will be key to keeping your Core Duo 2 working well. It may be that Conroe gets sold into desktop channels first while Intel revises the heat profile with another stepping for notebooks.
Sharikou, you should rename your journal to "fanboys vs fanboys", at least as far as the comment section goes.
I find the Anti-Intel sentiment a little startlingly ignorant sometimes, but even more startling is the Pro-Intel sentiment toward "Deliverance" style "fun". Are all Intel fannies interested in sticking things in, erm.. fannies? Tsk.
Is intelligent discussion on this subject possible here people?!
Guys.. you can rant and rate..
But come Christmas time 2006 all the premium gamers, top line desktop and top line mobile will be CORE.
AMD will be back to its entry level ways. Selling to the bottom half of the stack up at < 150 bucks a chip. They of course will still have their 4 core servery line at 1.5K, but won't sell enough of them to keep them from having losses thru 2007.
The Dr
Anonymous said...
Some of the Conroe/Woodcrest instability issues may be due to hot spots on the chip.
Core Duo 1.0 is having major major heating issues:
Cook breakfast with your MacBook
I SAY:
That's because of Apple's cooling device, there is no such thing as "hot spots" on the Core Duo causing instability problems. The CPU is stable due to the high temp.
Some of the Conroe/Woodcrest instability issues may be due to hot spots on the chip.
do companies like hp use different chips? i've hear of no problem with any of their notebooks... strange.
AMD = Absolute Morons and Dummassess
better yet: AMD = And More Dummasses
sharikou,
Do you have time to socialize man? Between your posts, blogs, and trolling the internet to add stupid comments, when on earth do you find the time to go out or work.. I bet you are a lonely sorry ass who lives in his mother house with no job. And please do not tell me that chatting with hookers online or watching internet porn is socializing. Dude, I bet if you get some, you will mellow down. But you need to get a job first lose the weight, and learn how to talk to a girl, unless you like guys, of course!
I find the Anti-Intel sentiment a little startlingly ignorant sometimes, but even more startling is the Pro-Intel sentiment toward "Deliverance" style "fun".
I found that a fanboy of a company usually behaves like the company he is fond of. And I routinely find that Intel fanboys are more prone to engaging in personal attacks and are less capable of engaging in intelligent discussion.
My first observation is most AMD fanboys are engineering oriented, they know their stuff and can quickly grasp an idea. Most Intel fanboys rarely engage and show an interest in discussion of technology....
"Guys.. you can rant and rate..
But come Christmas time 2006 all the premium gamers, top line desktop and top line mobile will be CORE.
AMD will be back to its entry level ways. Selling to the bottom half of the stack up at < 150 bucks a chip. They of course will still have their 4 core servery line at 1.5K, but won't sell enough of them to keep them from having losses thru 2007.
The Dr"
Another retard who refuses to read his favorite companie's proyected path..
THERE WILL BE SHORTAGES OF CONROE by the end of the year, re-read the intel's proyections retard!!
they even claimed they will only trow only 20% of the intel market with conroes, they want YOU TO BUY THE OLD PENTIUM NETBURST technology first. to clear their inventories..
I would be surprised if people will even get CORES (considering DELL and other special companies will eat these first )
I cant believe how blind some intel followers are..
and I agree with you there Shari.. most AMD fans talk about technology, while most intel fanboys just brag "NO U" or "NO, AMD SUXORS LAWL"
Sharikou,
I researched your blog. I just want to point out that it amazes me that you have written 464 blogs since October 27th, 2005. It has not been 7.5 months, yet. Roughly, that means 2 bolgs a day. That is without commenting on peoples comments (roughly 5-7 replies on each blog comments) or going to other blog sites and putting your 3 cents.
Don't you think this is a bit extreme for a balanced journalist?! I think a journalist would spend days to research his article which leads me to believe that you are not a real journalist (you are just a fanboy who likes one thing color blind to other things). That was not hard to figure out. Anybody who reads one or two of your blogs would figure that out. I just wanted to put the stats behind what I say.
Seriously dude, I see you are taking your grudge agaist the world too deeply. Life is too short to spend it on blogging and emails.
Get out a little.. If you do not like someting, do not buy it, and say your opinion, but 464 opinionated articles on the same subject in 7 months are sick. You may want to seriously cousult with a psychologist or a psychatist. This is not healthy at all.
Good luck
You are no fanboy that is for sure..
"My first observation is most AMD fanboys are engineering oriented,"
You are an idiot.
Core Duo 1.0 is having major major heating issues:
Macbooks are having major heating issues. Luckily Apple were able to get Core Duos, if they went with Turions they would have melted the laptop. Turion X2s uses 50% more power for slower performance.
I found that a fanboy of a company usually behaves like the company he is fond of.
Good finding. Your blogs say a though words :)
Anyway, here is a meaningful discussion, allow me to copy my other post here as Edward didn't reply it.
the cost. While people has been talking about the cost at the hardware end, what they forgot to see is the software end. You would have to pay about double for all the software that you own. Windows charge per CPU, not per PC. If you have the MS Office, and that's it. It will be too costly unless you go for piracy. Even if AMD is indeed working with multiple Software vendor on renewing the license terms, the changes won;t be fats and the first adopter has to pay the cost. Besides, i think most vendor will not change the license term to per PC(i know there are some that is already per PC, but not MS, etc). Else the hardware provider start to put more CPU into a single motherboard and the software company would lose money.
*i do not judge 4x4 performance here, do not shoot me on that*
so, the 4x4 will be damn costly not only in terms of hardware, but also in terms of software.
I researched your blog. I just want to point out that it amazes me that you have written 464 blogs since October 27th, 2005.
Wow! Even I myself was surprised. But I have always been a very productive person and are multitasking all the time.
"Sharikou, you should rename your journal to "fanboys vs fanboys", at least as far as the comment section goes."
Haha... indeed! But this fanboys vs. fanboys has been like a legend for the modern PC industry, and not unique to here. I've seen many silly arguments on whether it was Intel's ver.n beating AMD's ver.(n-1), or AMD's ver.(n+1) beating Intel's ver.n. Those arguments are really meaningless at best.
I mean since the PII/K6-2 time these two companies pretty much took performance crown in-turn (excpet the past 3 years of no contest from Intel); depending on your angle of view, it could be Intel constantly beating AMD with a later/better release, or completely the other way around.
"But I have always been a very productive person and are multitasking all the time."
yes, I bet you always jerk off and take drugs while writing blogs.
Here i got some more evidence that proove core2's architecture (4MB of shared crash) is only good for playing games on low resolution:
Quake 4 800x600x32 HQ-noAA-8xAF
Quake 4 1024x768x32 HQ-noAA-8xAF
Quake 4 1280x1024x32 HQ-4xAA-8xAF
Thahs with X1900XTX by the way so no bottleneck here. I dont know how about you but i always play my games in 640x480 - it realy puts presure on my $500 CPU. I realy do.
I was wondering if you would share with us the date you got fired from Intel. Its the only explanation that makes sense, because you think everything AMD does is good and everything Intel does is bad, even if its the same thing.
mark wrote:
This blog seems to attract some tech-savvy people. I just have a question.
If this is true, it is despite the lameness of the blog owner. It mostly attracts AMD fanbois and pumpers. Sharikou has shown himself to not be worthy of the PhD he claims to have. Not sure what the PhD is in, but can't be in anything too important.
"Architecturally AMD is way ahead of Intel. I just think there is a serious problem when it comes to people's understanding of the systems they run.
AMD's infrastructure in place is a solid performer and HT 3.0 brings forth an entirely new level of performance."
Are you deaf, dumb, and blind?
Even with wing-ding "HyperTransport", AMD just got its ass handed to it by Sheriff Conroe.
Can you say "AMD lost every single benchmark". That's how it went down in some reviews when a few things like Primordia that no normal person runs were left out.
For the apps and games people use every day -- today -- Intel Conroe is now the top dog. Sheriff Conroe is the lawman now.
For most non-server PCs all the HyperTransport in the world *does not matter one iota*.
In fact, NUMA just plain blows on Windows XP (use a system sleuth and you will see... sometimes XP leaves 90% of the RAM on one of your processors unused... losing a lot of speed this way... no RAM, no cache, no bandwidth, etc). So no matter what version of your HT it doesn't matter. None of them will work well at all because of the OS.
Maybe in 3-4 years on the desktop, HT will make a difference for normal users. But for now, Sheriff Conroe with his high speed micro-architecture is what rules. And this will not change until AMD improves its micro-architecture to catch up with Intel. Which is not happening until 2008 as far as AMD has said. One may hope it is sooner, for the consumer's sake, but with all of AMD's recent screwups, who knows???
"Sorry, AMD as a company and competitor aren't going anywhere."
I wish I had the same confidence in AMD. I see instead a company that is screwing up left and right. AMD just took a heavy punch from Intel in the form of Conroe/Woodcrest and I think it will be all AMD can take. AMD will go down, KO.
Maybe AMD has a future in high end 8P+ processors, but AMD hasn't done anything innovative since the original Opteron. AMD has coasted a long time on Opteron (which was very good), but today is fielding nothing of interest to the market.
AM2 is a joke. It requires DDR2-800 memory just to keep pace with the old DDR Opteron. AMD should have put more cache on the AM2, but instead they put less. That is just greedy on AMD's part.
And killing Socket 940 was a bad bad move. There is no reason Socket 940 Opteron could not have been improved. DDR2 has been shown to be a bust.
What else is there? Socket F that is over a year late?
No real updates to Opteron 940 other than dual core which is still overpriced at anything other than 1.8Ghz.
Now the vaporware of "4x4"... NUMA for desktops that have no OS that runs NUMA worth a darn. Not that many people will be able to afford "FX2" chips that will have the NUMA links to do NUMA on "4x4".
Intel on the other hand, DID THE WORK, and improved their core architecture. Now Conroe/Woodcrest offer better performance for most applications vs. AMD.
I don't see AMD anything other than lazy and greedy, milking the one good design they have ever done, Opteron, and cashing out. All AMD these days is ship Powerpoint roadmaps and vaporware. AMD is over. Watch their stock implode after the current bunch of execs cash out. And then tell me about how great AMD is... when you have a worthless stock that is in the proces of being delisted.
EX6800 at 2.93GHz is better than EX6800 at 3.46GHz
wait wait wait wait wait hold on here.
am i high right now? please tell me everyone do you guys see this 'poop' to or is it just me?
also, seen when did good 'ol tom turned to the dark side?
Dr. Sharikou could you please spend some time with us while explaining what happen --->HERE
It seems Conroe really has some heating problems: Read this, taken from the german website www.computerbase.de:
"Gerade in Sachen Temperatur konnte uns der Core 2 Extreme und der in einem späteren Artikel zu behandelnde Core 2 Duo nicht gefallen. Zwar sind die CPUs kühler als Silizium der Pentium-D/XE-Familie, dafür dürfen sie aber nur etwas mehr als 60 °C warm werden – einem Wert den wir unter sommerlichen Temperaturen im Test unter Belastung permanent überschritten und die Lüftersteuerung entsprechend veranlasste, auf vollen Touren zu arbeiten."
- Specially regarding temperatures Core 2 Extreme and Core 2 Duo (will be reviewed later) did not really enjoy us. The CPUs are cooler than the Pentium-Netburst family, but the highest allowed temperature is somewhat over 60°C - with summery temperatures a value that we have permanently reached and exceeded under testing. The cooler worked at full rpms permanently. -
Nice Wonder-CPUs, nice Wonder-Architecture!!
"Conroe Con Job"- Motley Fool Gets it.
"Just don't let that technical reality small-f fool you into thinking Intel's business will improve materially over the short term. It took AMD two years from the time it introduced 64-bit chips to earn enough momentum to get where it is today. Conroe, Woodcrest (i.e., Intel's new server chip), and others like it will probably need just as much time, if not more. Invest accordingly."
http://www.fool.com/news/mft/2006/mft06071419.htm
Found this on another german website:
Regarding temperature and loudness this new CPUs have some weaknesses. The idle-temperature of the E6700/X6800 in the BIOS was 56°C and so definitivly lower than Pentium Extreme Edition 965 (60°C), but has no chance against the 52°C cool Athlon64 Fx60 - it seems the lower power consumption has no effect on temperature. Worse to come that Core 2 Duo (4MB Cache: max. 60,1 °C, 2MB Cache: max. 61,4°C) and Core 2 Extreme (max. 60,4°C) should not become that hot like the 65nm Netburst Pentium D (max. 68°C) or even max. 70°C of the Athlon. Under load the cpu-fan works always at full rpms and keeps temperature at high 66/67°C
Looks like Intel will get some serious temperature problems as always suspected. All tests were done in a case with 2 back-fans and a side fan. Immagine a small standard OEM case... BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE...
AMD - 2006 Technology Analyst Day
Dude, that's an E6600 that the top FX-62 is beating out by .5 fps in quake 4. Congratulations on that big win when comparing the $1000+ chip to the $400 intel chip.
What is Sharikou's phd in and more importantly from which university?
"One may hope it is sooner, for the consumer's sake, but with all of AMD's recent screwups, who knows???"
You are truly a moron. Truly.
WTF ???
http://images.tomshardware.com/2006/07/14/game_over_core_2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64/ut_2004_min_perf.png
This can't be true !!
Maybe at 3.2GHz de C2D activate another 2 cores !?
I'm sorry but I don't think Tomshardware knows how to configure a computer, otherwise we wouldn't see the retardedness we see with that UT2004 test. A 3.2GHz gets 40 and a 3.46 gets 20? the 5000+ gets beat by the 4800+? Come on Tom! Pumping is one thing, being a moron is another!
"AMD is improving it's micro-architecture in Rev G and with K8L both of which are coming out before 2008."
Is there a way you could link to this information.
Thanks
FYI, Woodcrest CPUs are no longer in stock at newegg.com with no ETA on the next batch. I don't know if they were ever in stock at zipzoomfly.com or mwave.com.
"I see instead a company that is screwing up left and right. AMD just took a heavy punch from Intel in the form of Conroe/Woodcrest and I think it will be all AMD can take."
This is just plain stupid. AMD isn't screwing up anywhere. The punch from intel wasn't a very heavy punch at all.
"Maybe AMD has a future in high end 8P+ processors, but AMD hasn't done anything innovative since the original Opteron. AMD has coasted a long time on Opteron (which was very good), but today is fielding nothing of interest to the market."
Nothing innovative? What making a true dual core processor wasn't innovative? Direct Connect 3.0 isn't innovative? There's a lot of innovative things AMD has been doing lately if you care to look instead of making retarded comments.
"AM2 is a joke. It requires DDR2-800 memory just to keep pace with the old DDR Opteron. AMD should have put more cache on the AM2, but instead they put less. That is just greedy on AMD's part."
AM2 wasn't meant to be anything more than what it is. The sooner you realize this the sooner you can stop making dumb comments. How is less cache on AM2 processors greedy? You need to say this out loud to yourself so you can see how retarded it sounds when you call it greedy. Greed has nothing to do with it at all and where you would even begin to get that notion I have absolutely no clue.
"And killing Socket 940 was a bad bad move. There is no reason Socket 940 Opteron could not have been improved. DDR2 has been shown to be a bust."
Bad move? No. I can't even really think of anything else to say other than "No." It just about covers it.
"Now the vaporware of "4x4"... NUMA for desktops that have no OS that runs NUMA worth a darn. Not that many people will be able to afford "FX2" chips that will have the NUMA links to do NUMA on "4x4"."
Where do you get this notion that 4x4 is vaporware? You really need to pull the veil of retardation off your eyes that intel has placed there. If it's not obvious enough that it's not vaporware, then you may want to go to this link [URL=http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33081]here.[/URL]
"Intel on the other hand, DID THE WORK, and improved their core architecture. Now Conroe/Woodcrest offer better performance for most applications vs. AMD."
They also added in a few things that didn't improve anything and caused some compatibility issues. The fact still remains they mostly rely on the cache. I'm not denying that they offer the best 32 bit single thread performance, but you need to stop harping on how great conroe is. I'm certainly not impressed.
"I don't see AMD anything other than lazy and greedy, milking the one good design they have ever done, Opteron, and cashing out. All AMD these days is ship Powerpoint roadmaps and vaporware. AMD is over."
This is eight different types of stupid. I hate to be so blunt but it really is hard to reply to this rubbish. Lazy and greedy? No. Milking designs? Where do you come up with this? You are one of the many people I hope never post here again simply because you post no facts at all and just spout off random nothingness which either makes no sense or is blatantly wrong or stupid.
"If it's not obvious enough that it's not vaporware, then you may want to go to this link"
I hate to tell you, but the article your linking to says nothing definitive...
"THE FIRST set of AMD 4x4 numbers are starting to trickle out"
Trickiling out from where?
"Our source claims they saw an 80% average increase going from two to four cores, but exact testing methodology was not disclosed."
Again, who are there sources, and "testing methodology was not disclosed", to me that trigers a siren. If you dont know what they are testing and on what setup, it is just rumor.
I am not trying to be harsh, but you slam the person by saying, "you post no facts at all", well your linking to a non-definitive article.
I am in no way trying to defend his comments, but elaborate on yours.
I am really hoping that they make it work, and I use Intel, but it would seem like a very interestiing setup, and the performance, if true, would be very, very welcomed.
4x4
http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6536370.html
There's more links including interviews with people who work for AMD. You know about this fascinating technology called google, right?
"You know about this fascinating technology called google, right?"
I should have been a little more clear, I have no doubts that AMD is going to make 4x4, and I was not trying to bash your claims, my doubts lie within the article claiming 80% performance boost, no sources, no system disclosure.
I went ahead and took you advice, typed in "4x4 AMD" and searched Google news.
To my suprise, nothing definitive in regards to performance, only talk about release dates, and 8x8.
Again I would like to see it, and would like the 80% boost, but as of now, without definitive information its all speculative.
Seems like there is no RAID-5 bug on the Core 2 Duo X6800...
http://img.clubic.com/photo/00328050.jpg
nVidia chipset is just a lot better than the Intel one...
Perfect Blog...
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